Technical Doing a ring job the old way

Pinned rings. Yes 2 strokes have it, but why a flat 6? Were Hudson's capable of higher than normal RPM's back when? I don't have the answer but the question came to me because Hudson's kicked butt against V8's.

 

Hudson didn't offset the rings much...the oil ring rails have a bit of offset but the compression rings don't.

I visited a friend who has a couple derelict but very original 53 Hornets, one had the head fof for decades, I felt quite a bit of ridge at the top of the bore, but no vertical lines.

 

One big reason Hudsons won races was because this Cowboy hat wearing cigar smoking Guy. called Smokey was involved. He made the engine turn backwards and flipped the rear end to use the engine torque to make the car handle on the small oval tracks. Whatever make or model he was involved with had lots of wins. My uncle had hudsons. and dad had flathead fords.. dad blew his 239 racing him . Parts came thru the oil pan. Dad then got a merc mill. put his dual carb intake. aluminum heads and other speed goodies on the bigger displacement merc mill and beat that Hudson.

 

That explained pinning well.

 

Johnny, from what I understand, in a perfectly round bore, rings will rotate on the piston. In an eggshaped hole the rings will find their own low tension spot and stay in place(no rotation). Nothing to do with rpm I don't think. Now a two stroke I would not want my ring gap getting over a piston port in the cyl. Could break a ring. So pin it and keep it in place. Those Hudson guys were pretty sharp back then for the day. Lippy

 

I'm sure the drawings in my Motors Manual are "exaggerated for effect", but still. And the lower piston ring is below the pin, while the other 3 rings are above the pin; really odd to someone not used to seeing that. The "wet" clutch is unusual also, or does your Hudson not have that feature. It sounds like not all the models had a wet clutch, but again, Motors is't really that clear on those clutches. What model do you have? Overdrive? 53-54 Jets, and all 55-57 used a dry Borg and Beck setup. Or maybe you have a Hydro? Most of their engines had 6.70 to 7.80 CR, although one had 9.55 in the 1956, V-8, Hornet. A high school friends Father drag raced Hudsons; flat towed using his 53 Ford P/U Truck with a fully built 394 Olds engine and a B & M Hydro-Stick transmission that was probably faster than his Hudsons. Last I knew, they had sold their former dairy farm, and left everything in the barn that slowly collapsed over the years. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

That's odd, why give a straight path past the compression rings?

 

Mine has the wet clutch, and the three speed overdrive.

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Getting ready to pull the pan on a 51 Hornet I recently acquired, did you have to remove the center steering bracket to get the pan down?

Thanks

 

Yes, remove the three bolts holding the idler arm to the cross member and let it all drop down.

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Thanks for the reply, that's what the manual says, I was just wanting to confirm it was neccessary.

 

So, did this ever get back running ?

 

nope, waiting on parts....getting hudson parts is not like getting Chevy parts, unfortunately.

 

well on the plus side, you're not hurting for things to do !

 

"Quality knows no limitations"

 

I finally got a piston and rings (one piston's worth) to replace the .030 over piston that was having trouble. But the new piston and rings are .040 over. Hmmm....

so, I got a rigid cylinder hone, and opened up the bore a bit more. It was in pretty bad shape, mostly .040 over already except for the bottom two inches, which were at .030 over. Now it's mostly .040, but the middle is about five thousandths over that, and the top is about 3 though over. Oh well....

and that scratch is still there, although not as deep.

I also bought a set of NOS rings for a different engine, a V8 that has the same bore and ring width, but only 3 rings per piston. And they're .030 over, not .020 over, so I have to file a bunch off each ring to get them to fit. When they show up....which could be a while, since they're coming from Canada.

I love a challenge.

 

I I'll bet it runs just fine.

Ben

 

At least as good as the Corvair!

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TOOOOO much of a gouge! Have you looked at E-Bay? There are a couple of complete pistons sets, and another auction with two used pistons. One auction is fairly $$$$$, the other is only $$, but is for SEMI FINISHED pistons (you have to have them cam ground to YOUR oversize, and then use the proper sized rings); there are not a lot of options in this country any longer that can do "piston grinding", as it was called. Went that route with some 265 Chevrolet pistons I bought, and it would have cost me $800.00 to have them ground to size, on top of the original cost; yeah, they went back to the seller. I did't see the oversize on the two used pistons. I did see several sets of re-conned connecting rods; boy those are a SKINNY rod; sort of helps to explain their low C.R.!!! Even more so than a flathead Ford V-8. Did you wear out an electric drill doing the "boring"? I think it was Lone Wolf who said he did that once. I am Butch/56sedandelivery

 

^^^^^ It just has to do whats needed for prescribed duration. Think of it as another ring gap. It'll fly.

 

I did some of these ring jobs back in the 'dark ages', vertical 'gouges' like this worried me, but the $$ to rebore/replace piston (s) were far and away from the customer's bank.
I was always surprised at the outcome, seemed that the Lord was rewarding me for time spent!
Amazing how my 'schooling' affected my prognosis. Thinking, "This thing will smoke, use oil, and develop a serious compression loss in 1,000 miles."
Incorrect, of course.
Simply amazing how a cast iron ring will 'seal' a gap in a cast iron cylinder.
Ratio of proportion. (there aren't 12+ gaps all around the cylinder...Usually only 1 or 2. Not 'deep', or 'wide'...Again, ratio of proportion.
Then, there's wear taper. .008" is the limit on SBC, I've ringed (rung?) when they were that 'bad'...No smoke, easy starts, plenty of power.
Inline engines seem to be more 'forgiving'.
My first employment introed me to the International trucks. Big sixes blew head gaskets on a regular basis. Hone 'em, ring 'em, fly 'em. Hated that end of it.

 

I think you will be surprised at how well that engine will run. I say go for it!


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Thanks for the inspiration Jim! Back to some comments made earlier...it seems that some of the younger guys (and maybe some older guys too) need to see how this stuff can be done without spending a fortune. I try to take the same basic approach at least as far as “if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it” mentality working on my old junk anymore. My buddies sometimes give me a hard time, but I just don’t get spending a fortune doing stuff that doesn’t make it any more fun. And, as long as it runs reasonably and is safe, does it really matter anyway?

 

X2

 

It will work fine. Twenty years ago I cut down .020 piston rings and installed them in a badly worn std bore David Brown 3 cy diesel and it has 24 to 1 compression ratio. and its still going today. If you don't have one Get one of the ring grinders like I have. They certainly speed up the job of cutting the ring gaps. The diamond wheel grinds both ends at the same time. I think I bought mine From Jeg's? its been over two decades I don't remember for certain.. I used to file them by hand the tool is a hundred times faster and does a better job.

 

I do have a ring grinder like that...

 

Ok then you have been there and done that before. Ive patched up oil burning engines by cutting down oversize rings and installing in honed out cyls on std pistons. Used a flattened strand of copper from a battery cable as a shim behind the rings to tighten up the piston wobble. Works pretty good on a lawnmower engine with a aluminum block & bore. That gouge in your cyl will fill with carbon after a few thousand miles. Its a minor thing.

 

The guy in Canada with the parts wouldn’t be in London Ontario by any chance?


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Quebec, I think. I checked the tracking again, the rings are only one state away from me now, so they should maybe be here in a couple days.

 

OOPS! I said Lone Wolf when I should have said Old wolf; I knew who I was thinking of just the same. We'll all see when it's together again and running about that gouge. I have a similar, but smaller gouge in a 283 block I had tanked, oil plugs, and freeze plugs installed in; then I cut the very slight ridge from the top of the cylinders. A fleck of steel got caught under one of the reamers rollers, and left a horizontal gouge about 3" long, and I'm still sick over it; it's barely noticeable unless you know where to look. It's the only reason I have't assembled that engine. I have some fairly serious money in the rotating assembly. Maybe I'll just throw caution to the wind, and see what happens? I tend to be a little bit anal retentive with things like that. But, I still think the vertical gouge in the Hudson block is too much; at least from my perspective. The 333 SBC that was originally in my FED, then did time in my truck before it burned a valve, and when I tore it down for the rebuild it had a broken ring that left a vertical gouge in a cylinder; out of an abundance of caution, I had that cylinder sleeved and re-bored. Maybe I should have just left it. Anal retentive.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.