OK I'm hunting for some more car/engine combos to line up with names. Any help appreciated. Sanderson, 57 Chev wagon, Sep 1965 F/S=12.50 record at 13.48 et Either 2d6p wagon and 283/270 or 4d9p wagon and 283/283 J Watkins, 57 Chev, May 66 G/S=12.50 record at 103.21 mph, also won G/S at 66 Winternationals Could be either of the wagons above or a 210 hardtop 283/250. All 3 fit the W/P=12.50 class. Ugh. Larry Spina, 56 Chev, W/P=15.00 record set in 1965 (H/S in 65, I/S in 66), 14.19 at 96.35. Havent guessed at the combo yet. Glover & Wright, 55 Chev, J/S=15.60 record set in May 66 at 95.84mph. Any guesses? (Gary thanks for reply, DONE! 150 2dr 3pass, 265/195. ok) Noren & Mattucci, "Chevy" (THAT sure narrows it down!) set K/S=19.00 record in 1965 (held L/S=19.00 record in 1966) at 15.30 et No idea of year or combo. Probably 1965 or older LOL. (edit, 1 more) Dennis Maurer 57 Chevy tied the G/S=12.50 record in October 1966 with a 13.36 ET. Most of the W/P=12.50 class were chev 2dr-6pass wagons, 283/270 but other combos fit too, 2dr-9pass wagon 283/283 and 210 hardtop 283/250, maybe others. I cant find the Maurer name anywhere searching. I'm trying to re-create and post lists of the old 1960s NHRA winners & record holders and their combos with engine, color coded by Ghevy, Mopar, Ford, Olds, etc. The combos really jump out. Sometimes the pictures in this thread help but the above names are pretty obscure. To add to the Larry Spina confusion, the record sheets from NHRA show: ~Oct 1965 H/S Larry Spina 58 Chev HMB, Ca, Oct 65, 93.35mph H/S Larry Spina 58 Chev Arlington, Wa Aug 65 14.28et ~May 66 I/S Larry Spina, 56 Chev HMB, Ca, Oct 65, 96.35mph (56 vs 58 same location same date, similar mph, error somewhere?) I/S Larry Spina 58 Chev Arlington, Wa Aug 65 14.28et ~Jul 66 I/S Larry Spina 56 Chev HMB, Ca, Oct 65, 96.35mph I/S Larry Spina 58 Chev Arlington, Wa Aug 65 14.28et Is this 2 different cars or is the 56 or 58 a typo? These are all the W/P=15.00 class, and 3 combos fit for 1958: 15.18 = 3795/250, Yeoman 2d6p 348/250 15.07 = 3768/250, Nomad 4d6p 283/250 15.03 = 3457/230, Impala 2ht 283/230 Roger Thorson won the 1961 Indy, F/S=15.00 same class with a 58 Chev, similar issue, could be any of the 3 above combos. Seems the 348/250 and 283/230 were not popular combos so maybe it was the 283/250 in both cases. I have no idea!!!
The "controversial" part is that all those Hudson Jets were running a Hornet engine. The stock Jet engine was 202 cubic inches and had high performance parts available from the factory, but the Hornet engine was 308 cubic inches. My uncle raced this combination rather successfully in the early-mid sixties. the problem was, Hudson never made the Jet available with a Hornet engine and it takes a good bit of of surgery to get it in there. My uncle claimed he could change the rear spark plugs from inside the car, which may or may not be true. I don't know the actual reason for banning them but it probably had to do with the fact that they were in no way a stock car. Really cool though.
Werby... Larry Spina, 56 Chev, W/P=15.00 record set in 1965 (H/S in 65, I/S in 66), 14.19 at 96.35. Havent guessed at the combo yet. Was probably a 56 210 2 dr sedan, 210 hp (265, 4 bbl, with solid lifter cam (same as 56 Corvette)) Or possibly a wagon with 265 2 4-bbls 225 hp
Thanks for the clarification. That explanation sounds pretty much like the way I remember it. I know that at least one of the Jets that ran in this part of the country had a Thunderbolt hood lump and the gossip was that it required firewall surgery to put the motor in the Jet. I didn't mention it because I have/had no firsthand (or even secondhand) information. Lest anyone harbor the opinion that the Hudson people were merely out-and-out cheaters, don't forget that a similar interpretation of the same rules led to the development of Hydramatic transmissions in sedan deliveries (trucks), dual-quad 283 Chevrolet station wagons, 4-speed, 283 '59 Biscaynes, supercharged 312 Ford station wagons, etc. It was nothing more than a particular interpretation of an ambiguously lax rule. When Jack Hart and Farmer Dismuke straightened it out and tightened the reins, there were plenty of people left holding the bag. The lasting change that stemmed from those days was the development of the Powerglide behind an Opel-based torque converter and the creation of a whole new industry. c
Shain, in 1971, when I helped Val Hedworth put the 2-4bbl Corvette engine in a '56 station wagon, the solid lifter, swirl-polished valve, dual-quad motor was rated at 225. As I remember the line-up, the base 1956 (hydraulic lifter) 265 was 205 horsepower. Those numbers are very close to the current ratings for those same motors.
I raced a 56 Chevy 210 2 dr sedan, 210 hp in I stock in 1966. (see my avatar to the left) At that time you were allowed to run the single 4bbl version at 210 hp. (solid liter Corvette cam) As I recall the weight break was 15.01 on a 15.0 class. Nearly perfect. It was sort of the 56 version of the 55 195 hp cars. It was the same engine as the standard Corvette single 4 bbl engine....like the dual 4 bbl 225 hp that was actually a Corvette offered model engine ...that was never really offered in a passenger car/wagon. I think it was Sonny Bryant that also tried a 210 hp 2 dr sedan about then Yes, the 205 hp (hydraulic lifters) you mentioned was the standard single 4 bbl in passenger cars. And the "new" rules are for the 205 hp hydraulic motor only......disallowing the 210 hp, 225 hp, 2245 hp that were used back in the day in 56's ..various body styles. Almost as bad a the 57's back in the day..... no car had more possible engine/body options...that were ultimately disallowed in the early 70's..and 4 speed was never actually offered in a passenger car. Ah.....those were the days.
Chuck is right,I can help with that. Car was a 1955 Chevy business coupe with a 195 hp 265 cu in engine and a 3 speed trans. . This was at Half Moon Bay CA. This was not a guess.I wanted to add that Wright was Willard Wright who went on to become part of the Smothers Brothers racing team.
George, that's the one that I remember! Thanks for coming up with that picture. It's a good illustration of how the rules structure of that era left some wide-open doors for exercising one's imagination. A hydro-shifted, Corvette-motored '56 sedan delivery doesn't quite approach the extremes demonstrated by this example. Could be wrong but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that S/S Enterprises probably had some connection to Ike Smith who was involved with most of the Hudson drag cars in this part of the world. Both that picture and the earlier one of the Jet racing Bill Hoefer were taken at Carlsbad Raceway, where the starting line had to be carved out of the side of a hill in order to provide enough length to ensure a shutdown area and, as I recall, it was still none too long for hot cars. That venue was more suited for motocross racing but, until OCIR came along, it was one of the regular stops on the Division 7 circuit. c
Per the above questions, I'm re-making the NHRA Nationals & Records as lists that show the actual car & MODEL, along with the engine combo. I was working on the April 1965 records, and just in time, there is a 54 Hudson J/SA=W/P=17.00 and another 54 Hudson in I/SA=W/P=15.60 and there's no way to get a Hudson in that high of a class unless it's a JET with Hornet power! Here are the April 1965 Stick and Automatic records (note the pink boxes where I'm guessing - any help appreciated!) EDIT: Good discussion on the Hornet-Jet here: https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2014/04/04/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1954-hudson-super-jet/ Kinda makes sense - somebody showed some drawings & convinced NHRA the factory DID make 50 of these, so NHRA allowed it for a while, likely until they learned better.
Tracks like Carlsbad and San Fernando, Lions, Irwindale, etc., were usually pretty lenient with the Stock Classes as far as the NHRA (or AHRA) Rulebooks were concerned. If it looked kinda stock, it was a stocker. About the only time I saw "legal" stockers running at our SoCal tracks was when a Landy or a Ronda or a Proffitt showed up to do some testing, and 99 times out of a 100, they mopped up on the cheaters anyway. When I had my '62 409, there were times that the Track Tech at "the Pond" or "the Beach" would sign off on my Tech Card without even opening the hood for a look-see, and I was a nobody. If it was a NHRA National Event, like at Pomona or Ontario or OCIR, it was a different story, of course...
Interestingly, that a car never factory built, could run in "Stock", and have "Honestly" lettered on the quarter panels. seems a little far fetched that NHRA would allow so much modification to fit an engine into that chassis/body (cutting the firewall et al); I can "sort of" see them allowing 4 speeds, even Hydros, and Fuel injected motors in cars that never came that way from the factory from Chevrolet in regards to the Tri-Five cars; they did sort of "bolted in". Although it was the Junior Stock Class that first drew me to Sedan Deliveries, it was not the "never installed power-trains", that had anything to do with it; I just liked Deliveries. Even way back them, NHRA was less than "honest"; it was still about money to them. Still is, to this day. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
I have seen quite a few Hornet-powered Jets at Hudson meets over the years. Some of them look pretty "factory" under the hood. I've been told that the trick is to use part of the firewall from a Hudson Wasp, which had a pretty good recessed portion to allow the big block engine to fit in the short wheelbase car. Carefully welded in, it might trick somebody into thinking it was stock. It might be that the Jets running that way were actually represented as factory cars, but that was before my time ...
WGUY are those pictures from 2009 or 1969? They don't look like 21st century, especially with a tow bar. Very cool pictures though. Pat
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