Projects Buying with no title.

Except when it come to issues of vehicle identification, processes and procedures vary from state-to-state. It is therefore up to each of you to learn what the ins-and-outs are of titling and registration in your own respective states.

If there is one thing that I have learned from my travels across this nation, and all of the states that I have lived in, it is that there is a universal undercurrent in law enforcement, district attorneys, and prosecutors, and that is that they love low-hanging fruit. They love it so much that they will manufacturer it, when it does not exist.

In my state, cops have been caught on camera plating drugs and guns on innocent people. We periodically have people removed from death row, and exonerated, having been revealed to be totally innocent.

Don't cut your own stem, to drop yourself into the waiting hands of someone who will willfully destroy you.

 

back in the 60,s I had a already rusty and bondo filled three year old 65 ford mustang. Got it from a used car dealer. the drivers door had been changed. and the Vin tag was loose in the glovebox. So I went to get it inspected. and that asshole called the cops. 17 year old kid I was worried and told them where I had bought it. Then a older guy waiting to get a inspection came and opened the hood and showed the cop a serial number stamped on the cowl. It matched the loose vin tag.

 

So what’s the California law concerning that bronco drivers door and the camaro cowl ? Two very special and specific and very real examples that could be facing any repair shop. Maybe it was just mine idk?
There’s a bunch more like that as well.

Just to be clear, I’m not taking about willful and intent to tagging a stolen car. But when obtaining a parts car you’ll have no idea and neither can anyone discern on many examples if it’s not stolen or is stolen.

There’s countless examples of Frankenstein type builds across the Hamb. Transplant a brain and which person is it??? Donor or recipient ??? Moral Theme of a few sci fi movies.
Before Vin standardization Some identification stay with body some with frames some with engines , so the whole mess can’t be contained under a blanket statement and especially with Hot rods.

Even those with law degrees make a living arguing about the law

 

You have to have both parts, the original, with the original number, and the replacement, with proof-of-purchase.

The transfer-of-identity needs to be supervised by a LEO or DMV employee, and the original numbers destroyed.

And no, you are not correct. Hot rods absolutely must be contained under one single blanket statement, and that statement is the letter-of-the-law (as written, in your state). Private citizens do not get to interpret the meaning.

If you fail to accept that, and comply with that, your car, your money, and potentially your freedom (and/or your ability to find continuing, meaningful work), is at-risk.

If all y'all want to take on the risk, be that by informed consent. There really is not a gray-area here.

 

I see
No need to actually LOOK into it.
Your right there’s no gray area.

 

So , after reading all the post is it reasonable to say some rodders on this forum and around the country are possibly breaking the law with their Frankenstein ( I like that) cars unaware? Think about all the rods with entirely different chassis be it home built , swapped or bought from one of the many companies out there. Is there a process to do it right?

 

Try googling the phrase; a little history lesson for you --

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence. The phrase gives three examples of the "unalienable rights" which the Declaration says have been given to all humans by their creator, and which governments are created to protect.

 

Yes,
and it’s going to be on a case by case / car by car / era by era and state by state basis.
So when you take the particular case x state x era x car there will be a correct way but not universally correct for all states, cars, eras, and cases.

 

Anytime someone chirps in to just buy a title from a similar car I'm not sure they understand that those serial numbers on that title will not match the stampings on the vehicle they want to use it on. There are exceptions where the title used the engine number however,a '55 chevy with a serial number on the A-pillar that does not match the serial number on the title will be a issue if law enforcement gets involved for a accident. Insurance companies can and have refused claims in those circumstances.

 

Yep!!

 

agreed and on a tri five chevy there is a vin stamped on the top of the frame right below the drivers seat. most vehicles have hidden vin's on the frame & body. Only exception I have found is 63 thru 66 GMC pickups no vin on the frame.

 

I’m sure every single model A on 32 rails with something other than its original banger is also something other than proper. That’s a lot of felonies.
Fuck I’m going to put some pennies on the railroad tracks and drill a hole in every quarter I can find and I’ll video tape it and post it to you tube too.

Since your model a ford has its number on the engine and frame ( oh they did matched when Henry put it together) it could be problematic in some states if it’s changed.

The A ford gets identified off engine numbers , title it as the ‘76 Chevy caprice because those treefiddy engine numbers? Or is it a 72 C10, or a 65 Buick wildcat? That’s why it’s case/car/ era and state specific. $325 bucks for a lawyer is tooooooo damn easy.

 

You guys think it’s bad on cars, on motorcycles, it’s even worse. I’ve seen motorcycles plucked off of Main Street in Sturgis that belonged to a law abiding citizen that had a fishy looking number on the front fork! He lost that bike, not sure where he bought it.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

One of my ex-girlfriends used to to forensic investigation and accident reconstruction for automobile insurance companies.

She can explain to you that every single policy is written so that it can be voided, on-the-spot, in the event that there is evidence, even inadvertent, of wrongdoing.

Some of you must love gambling.

 

Just a thought, in the case of a car that is totally constructed from non original parts with the exception of the body why not every state have a home built title modified or something similar . Suppose you have a mid 30's coupe. You could prove ownership of the body by either title ( if you have one) or 3 or so witnesses who sign a notarized statement that they know from history you have owned said car for x amount of years. Then with all the new add on's such as frame, engine, trans and so forth you could get it titled as a modified 35 ford coupe and they could issue a decal or plate. I am sure these sorta things exist but evert state could do the same. If you bought a body only , thet could do the same except the former owner would issue you a notarized bill of sale and perhaps he could get the witnesses to sign a statement as I mentioned or he could get bonded and in the event an issue came up later and you would be reimbursed for a set amount. None of this will probably ever take place but there are lot of ole cars out there that could become legal. Just thinking it could be so simple.

 

Not a sound argument. The Declaration of Independence is not a legal governing document for the nation, only The Constitution is. The Constitution clearly states that you have the right to do anything and everything that you could possibly conceive of, and anything that has not yet been conceived, except for what the document specifically limits. It also clearly states that that what is not covered by this master document is left up to the states, to pass their own laws.

At no point does The Constitution mention titling and registration of motor vehicles, therefore, that is by definition, left up to the states.

While we are at it, it is not "unalienable", it is inalienable, and "Life" means the government cannot kill you, without cause, "Liberty" means that they cannot imprison you without due process, and "the Pursuit of Happiness" means you can chase being happy, not that you are entitled to happiness.

Not a single one of those pertains to titling or registering a motor vehicle, either, by any stretch.

 

I've followed your posts on this topic for a while now...do you ever feel like you're talking to the wall?

 

Driving is considered a privilege
But you can walk just about anywhere except where posted not to
Or where limited by oceans

 

Thanks, Gimpy. I could not have said it any better if I had time to ponder a response. Actually, I do have the time to ponder it but I still could not have said it better.

 

Regarding the door tags on the FoMoCo products, those are warranty tags, and even though the warranty number typically does match the VIN, the 1966 version shown clearly states the warranty number is not to be used for registration. The thumbnail tag is from a 1976 F250, again stating that it is the warranty number, don't know why it posted that way, and the one with the teal colored door is from a 1979 F150, also again stating it is the warranty number.

 

No. When I talk to the wall, it does not argue with me.

 

Can we stay on topic?

 

I doubt it.

 

When I bought my Model A, it had a valid Ohio title. When I went to title it in PA, it had to have a "street rod" title because the chopped top shortened the windshield below the "regular" car minimum. The Pennsylvania DMV. vacated the title AND vacated the VIN number on my car, then sent me a new title AND a new VIN tag which is now rivited onto my firewall. Still a 1931 Model A Ford in the eyes of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Figure that one out

 

Are you happy?
That’s all that matters.

 

At least they didn’t steal it from you because it didn’t meet their regs.......

 

An Ohio title is gonna hold water.
They aren’t easy to get, probably one of the most stringent requirements.
The ohio titles seem to be on par with a Birth or death certificate.

 

Bought a 1953 Chevy 2Dr. Sedan project car in Minnesota in 2012,no title,bill of sale only,(VIN still attached ). Trailered car back to Virginia,went to DMV with bill of sale. They ran VIN, found no problems and issued me new Title.

 

What Chevy is 53-feet long?

 

Some states do not have titles after certain year.
Folks who live in those states don’t know any difference.