Projects Buying with no title.

While I can sympathize with the buyer who lost the car and money. I am happy for the folks who got their car back. Arkansas does a title search on every vin when you purchase tags and transfer a title. When you get a bonded title a law officer has to verify the Vin.

 

Yep. You are telling the truth. This state used to be famous for that back in the 50s-60s. But it wasn't because you could get a title easy, its the fact that you didn't need a title at all to get it registered in your name. That honor is what brought forth the title law in 1975, but all the older vehicles were grandfathered in. I guess because the politicians must have thought that the old cars with no titles would not be worth stealing?

 

I wonder if that is why they changed the title law a few years back to a rolling 35 years? They must have figured anything that old still on the road was a POS. Lots of folks don't know it's been changed, and you can get some real deals on stuff that they have lost the title to. I saw a nice 76 Chevy pickup, one owner truck that had been taken care of, sell for $500 because the owner had lost the title years ago and never gotten a new one, they sold it as a parts truck. I was 15 minutes too late to get it myself.....

 

We drive em out of scrap yards

 

Just don't buy a car with a lien on it. If it's still in the system a lien is forever. Lippy

 

Ive ran across those deals. and I wasn't too late. At present Im parting out 16 of those OT square cab trucks. I sell a lot of the front crossmember & suspension. they pretty much bolt in to a 60 thru 66 truck to convert to disk brakes and 5 lug wheels.

 

Every time I hear someone cheering their state, and the ability to "acquire ownership" of a vehicle in it, with greater ease than a more procedure-heavy state, I will remind them of this.

Absence of titling, and ease of titling will always be abused, wherever it is.

No title, no sale, no way.

 

It can definitely be a pain. I have done it more than once in the great state of California but it is with cars that I always knew their history so I wasn’t worried about it be stolen. Personally I wouldn’t buy a non titled car from someone I didn’t know or at least know where the car has been for decades. I’ve posted about my own adventure with my 62 Pontiac this week. I had the title at one time but I think it got thrown out years ago while I was in the service. In the end it should work out but I’m having to go through a few more hoops than I thought.


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Check the vin to see if the vehicle is stolen or not. After that determine if the vehicle is what you want, use the title problem to haggle the price and buy the car! Any vehicle that is not stolen can be tagged! Just depends on how much effort you willing to expend.




Bones

 

Gimpy I have passed on more than one possible deal because it had no title, bill of sale only, but based partly on the good advice from you an others on the HAMB I recently purchased a '54 Ranch wagon and received a title from the DMV in the last week or so. BUT until I actually received the title from the DMV I was nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

 

I can't disagree with your statement, but will add, that anything and everything is abused at one time or another. And that abuse not only comes from those trying to get a title, it also comes from those who issue them, in the form of excessive regulations to acquire one. It's a natural trait that some people want power over others, some more than others, and they take delight in making things tough for everyone else. To each his own I guess.

It doesn't seem to be as large an issue here as it once was. While I'm sure there are still those gaming the system, it's not as widespread as it once was. With 17 digit vins, hidden vins, etc, I think a lot of it went away. Probably easier to sell dope now than to steal and sell cars.....

No system is perfect, all have shortcomings one way or the other. We just have to deal with what has been dealt with us where we are at and make the best of it.

 

This is what I'm hoping for. Had an unrestored 1928 JD Harley stolen in 1989.
Still look at serial #s when I go to bike shows, and dream about finding it restored ...

 

Don't give up your dream... You see reports pretty regularly about people getting back long-gone stolen cars; some had been missing for 20+ years. In all cases I've seen, the current 'owner' is SOL, they went back to the person it was stolen from regardless of insurance payouts, etc.

The only 'safe' way to buy a no-title vehicle most places is a government-sanctioned abandoned or confiscated vehicle auction, or maybe one with a mechanics lien on it. Buying from a private party gives you pretty much zero legal protection.

After dealing with a few vehicles back in the '70s with murky or no titles, a no-title means parts only to me now... And you still have to figure out what to do with the carcass. It takes a while to cut one up into small enough pieces to dispose of...

 

I waited too long to get a title on one of my projects, and now it is a pile of parts.

I have a Model A frame, and engine block, with matching serial numbers, but that is all that I have.

In CA, with no paperwork, that means that CHP has to inspect the numbers, and they only want to look at whole vehicles.

I am not happy about this, but I'd rather have it this way, than have my stuff go through an "involuntary ownership change", and then get registered in another state.

 

One thing that should be brought up for current owners... Some states are purging titles from their records of vehicles that haven't been licensed or had any other activity attached to them after X number of years. As long as you still have the original paper title you're fine (or some other proof of ownership), but if you're lacking that you can be in the same boat as a buyer with no title only worse because who's going to give you a receipt? California and Washington are two states that are doing this, there may be others....

 

I see by your signature that you know what you're talking about, but I'm not sure why that's a problem. When I went to get a title in CA for my avatar it was just a roller and they wouldn't look at it. When I got the car drivable I had the numbers checked and started the bonded title process which went smoothly.

 

This is merely a question I have thought of sometime ago. What if you had an old title for lets say a 40 ford coupe . Title is signed but nothing else filled out. You find a 40 coupe and of coarse the ser # is different but As I recall the ser # is stamped on frame fairly poorly I might add and hard to see on a vehicle .Can't remember if there is a tag on dash. Is it possible to make this work . The reason I ask is I have seen titles on ebay presented as historical documents and makes me think they are selling labeled like that to cover themselves but could be for the reason I mentioned. After all. Most rods are made up from various vehicles and soforth.

 

That's fraud and falsifying documents. As much as I think titles are a bunch of BS, they are still legal documents.

 

But can you sell it back with a title?

I've a need on a work truck as I was going through my divorce years ago...I have like 1300 in back fees on it due to not non-op'ing it.

Effing truck just sits and take up space, would like to put it back on the road.

 

No such thing as non op fees here Budget36. You can let a tag expire and as long as you don't drive it on the highway, it can sit 40 years and you would not owe anybody anything. On the other hand, if you get a tag for one, you must have at least liability insurance. If your insurance lapses or you drop it, the insurance company reports that to the state, and they cancel your tag. Then you have to buy insurance and pay for the tag again, and probably a fine. That's why even though my car has been parked over two years, I've kept my insurance up on it even though I have an Vintage vehicle tag that never expires. I could have voluntarily turned my tag in when I parked it, but I would have had to pay for it again when I got ready to drive it again. Better to just keep my classic car insurance on it live, it's covered if anything happens to it here at home, and I don't have to buy my tag again.

 

I agree but one other scenario , what if you have a raggedy piece of crap and had title . Then you found a nice car to restore but no title , would it be legal to swap out parts such as frame or portion of frame and any plates on firewall or portion of firewall . I see these rods with completely different chassis and new firewalls where some have vin plates ( I think) . I know this happens and the cars are titled as though they are original.

 

People may get away with it, but it's still fraud.

 

This is done but is illegal pretty much anywhere. It's a big deal if you're caught. Boyd Coddington narrowly avoided prison by playing fast and loose with VIN numbers/titles.

 

They have legal processes to do that. Example. Swapping a pickup cab. The VIN of the final truck will be the frames VIN. Even though the cab has a different number. Depends on each state. But most likely it goes off the frame numbers. And you get a salvage or reconstructed branded title.

 

Not just fraud, but a Federal felony.

 

Darin you could just fill out your state in your profile and the questions would be answered.

 

Ive got a very nice chassis'anddrivetrain with a good clean title for a 1940 ford and they match. I do not have a body. Where's the fraud and federal offense happen when I stick a body on it? Drake body or field find body or I build it from scratch with flat steel or maybe a 35 coupe body

What happens if you change the drivers door on a 79 bronco? Look into it.
What happens if you keep that drivers door?
What happens if you change out a rusty cowl on a 69 Camaro? Or save that cowl and change the rusty car around it? Look into it

Think I should title this one as the 36 ford truck it started as?
Or would it be the highly modified 1934 frame it's setting on get the title?
I have both and really am not interested in catching a felony. Anyone , even small children and Stevie wonder can see it doesn't fit any vision of a truck. The more than casually trained can tell it's not a 34 ford either.
Certainly not the 57 Chrysler engine Because I don't have squat on that.
90% of the population would actually accept Roadster anyways.

 

The fraud is when you willfully (up to the courts to decide) use the identifying numbers from one vehicle, on another vehicle.

Look into it.

I inspect vehicles for the State of California. I don't need to look into the law. I know the law.

 

I get folks wanting to buy titles and Vins from me sometimes. I refer them to my eldest son who is a lawyer. If you have a valid vin and a search comes back clear. He can get you a title most times for $250. Just last week I had a Facebook Marketplace query from someone who wanted to buy a rusty no good truck cab as long as it has a title. I told them I don't sell titles or vins with parts trucks. If I sell a solid rust free cab. I remove the Vin even if I have the title. only a mostly complete project will I sell with a title. Now If I install a different cab on a rusty truck. I cut a good portion of the metal around the vin from the rusty cab and weld that in the replacement cab. careful to not disturb the rivets or spot welds that hold the Vin on. Then the Vin on the new cab matches the vin on the frame. Many years ago before the insurance law was in effect. I had two 64 pickups. one Chevy and one GMC. This Politician got elected governor and raised the price on licence. So I swapped the cabs on my two trucks. The GMC cab was on a chevy frame. and GMC trucks in the 60,s never have a Vin stamped on the frame. So I painted a thick coat of paint over the vin on that GMC cab. When I went and got my inspection sticker I used the cab vin on the GMC frame with the chevy cab. and the frame vin on the GMC truck with the chevy frame. then I played musical licence plates between those two tucks. Ole tax and spend BC didn't gain any extra revenue from me. I simply refused to tag my F600 truck the fine for no tags was $35 the cost for plates was over $200. never got caught for two years. I was a bit of a outlaw in my twenties.

 

The problem is when you don't buy a complete vehicle, or are not planning on building one*.

Imagine that you buy 60% of a Model A, and then build it out enough to get it inspected by CHP, who does a deep-dive on the numbers, and finds out that it has been reported stolen, or has a number that is in-use, either because someone made one up, or they duplicated yours. Goodbye car, hello lawyer.

Until last November, a private inspector could get your paperwork going for you, before you started working, or spending money. We were only supposed to inspect complete vehicles then, too, but a fenderless highboy roadster, with no hood, is "complete" to me. The law does not define complete, exactly, but CHP knows it, when it sees it.

*Fenders, bumpers, exhaust, etc. will all need to fit into CHP's notion of "complete". Many hot rods are operated without these (minor motor vehicle infraction, civil issue, not criminal). In the case that you were planning on building so, you will need to have them all on for CHP.