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Technical Electronic ignition module?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 34Larry, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    I always had more failures with the resistor on the Mopar electronics than any other item. As a matter of fact, that was the only trouble I ever recall having with them. One friend carried one faithfully in the glove box of his Volare, it was as important to him as his spare tire, but I imagine he may have been getting the cheapest ones he could find.
     
  2. G-son
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,277

    G-son
    Member
    from Sweden

    In many cases you are right, but there's the voltage sensitive semi conductors too. While current may be involved in the failure when the voltage has risen too high, the current is not responsible for breaking through the non-leading semiconductor (say, too high reverse voltage in a diode or forward voltage on a closed transistor). Voltage breaks through it, current comes later once the path is open - and it doesn't have to be overcurrent, it can be well within the parameters of the component, it's already dead.

    Even static electricity that just has high voltage and almost zero current is a well known killer of semiconductors.
     
    TrailerTrashToo likes this.
  3. That is a heat-soak condition. Once the module reaches a temperature where it fails, it keeps doing that. I never had one totally fail where it would not start from being dead cold. Any failures I've had with them occurred when they were hot. I've had them where the car would move 100 yards after it sat for 5 minutes. One would run all day, as long as I shut it off for less than 15 minutes. Past that window, say 20 minutes, no spark until it cooled down all the way. Cold-start failures are rare to me, but the while it is running failures are predictable.
     
    Kan Kustom likes this.
  4. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,701

    34Larry
    Member

    The day this happened was a unusual hot day with no wind here. I moved it just a few feet into the hot sun, leaving it in the position. facing south, you see in my avatar, without the hood. I mounted the module in the center of the firewall when building the car. consequently it was exposed to the blazing sun for at least 6 hrs. , maybe more. I thought about this yesterday. 33, 34 fords have a sloping downward portion of the fw. that is where it is located. In addition it is black, which of course draws in the heat. Hard for me to believe that could be the cause of the failure, buttttttttttt............... Jim stopped through last night and checked out the current feed to the module and every lead is hot. Now just waiting for the new one to get here.
     
  5. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,701

    34Larry
    Member

    Thanks so much to those who have responded. I now know more than I ever wanted to about modules.

    I'm even now more pissed off a the local "fix it" garage here in Federal Way than ever though. Ten years back my Silverado did this to me in a parking lot. Being as electronically challenged as I l am and even more so in those days, I had it towed to a shop called "Sparks". Call from them the next day says come and get, That'll be $600 bucks please. I ask what was it, reply was: your module, (sucker).
     
  6. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,739

    Kan Kustom
    Member

  7. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have been active in the "Hot Rod World" since 1957. I NEVER heard of ANYONE carrying an extra distributor or parts thereof until the advent of electronics ignitions. Nowadays, just about every defender of these infernal devices admits to carrying one. I think that says it all.
     
  8. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Funny, there was a thread on here just the other day about multiple ignition condensers failing. I don't recall anyone posting about how unreliable points ignitions are and how glad they are they have electronic. For some reason it only works the other way around....
     
    Truckdoctor Andy likes this.
  9. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    I see posts all the time about people carrying spare points and condensers.
     
    OLDSMAN and Truckdoctor Andy like this.
  10. I installed the Pertronix on my wife's wagon and it was quick starting and never skipped a beat - until it died on that HOT ARSE day in 5 o'clock traffic in the left turn lane and I had horns blaring and fingers telling me how happy they were with me.

    After about a hour I was able to get the car across 4 lanes of traffic without getting killed, got the car on a rollback, and switched back to a points distributor. HRP
     
    Moriarity likes this.
  11. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Those are the guys with electronic ignition systems.:rolleyes:
     
    s55mercury66, F&J and Moriarity like this.
  12. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Solid state electronics parts are made of compressed smoke. If you let the smoke out they stop working. Sometimes you can see the smoke escape all at once. Other times it dribbles out little by little. Sometimes if they are half full they will work sometimes and not other times. The hotter they get the more likely the smoke will escape.
     
    INVISIBLEKID likes this.
  13. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Can you get "Electronic Ignition Smoke" in a bottle like you can "Lucas Smoke"? LucasSmoke.jpg
     
  14. Yes ive had electronic ignition fail. however not any more or less frequent than points. However My old M and letter series Farmalls (I have 14 tractors running at present) If I let them set and went to start them. I always had to mess with the points. and The ballast resistors where aways giving problems. I converted the tractors to electronic ign and am happy with it. I have one M that's Lp and has a brand new magneto. It always starts. I don't even have a battery on it. just a hand crank. on points ignition at high RPM you get points bounce. with as many engines as I keep running some of them smoke and burn oil. and with electronic ign they don't oil foul the spark plugs.
     
  15. Amen Old Wolf! I completely agree.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    dirty old man and Old wolf like this.
  16. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    Heads up, somebody just started another electronic ignition problem a few minutes ago. what is that, like 5 current threads on this off topic bullshit?

    hamb is off track.
     
  17. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    Anyone figure out what ignition set up it is?

    I may have missed it.
     
  18. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

  19. garyf
    Joined: Aug 11, 2006
    Posts: 283

    garyf
    Member

    Rain water would hit a hot resistor and crack the porcelain along with the resistor wire . A improved resistor was made to correct this but the old ones were still sold.
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  20. On points ignition on a chevy. The coil required 12 volts to start. then A resistor was needed to prevent full voltage from overheating the coil. A yellow wire ran from the starter to the dist to give the boost when cranking. and those resistors give trouble. I found that the resistance wire used in 63 and newer chevy trucks held up and did a much better job than a porcelain resistor. However when I converted to GM HEI electronic ignition I assumed I would need to bypass that resistor wire. Not so. My 66 GMC 250 six with a 81 HEI is hooked to that resistance wire. and is now going on 6 years and no problems at all!
     
  21. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,739

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    After reading all this I decided to cut apart an electronic module and see for myself what majic was inside. When I got it apart there was a set of points and condenser ! ;)
     
  22. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    :D :D

    Your post reminds me of some "special" electrolytic capacitors used in vacuum tube guitar amps. Many guys are convinced that only a certain brand of caps should be used, as they provide the best tone. These are old school caps that have been around for decades, a nice pretty blue color, very large, and quite expensive. Newer designed caps are made much smaller and are capable of much better heat operating temps, they are very good caps with good reliability, and compared to the old style they are cheap. But they are different, people don't like different. In the minds of many guys it still has to be the old school caps. Somebody opened on up and swear to God, the larger cap was just a shell and inside was a new smaller cheap cap. But guys still swear they can hear a difference, you got to use the old school caps if you want to be one of the cool guys.

    That seems like an analogy to something else, hmmmmmmmm.......

    edit: I remembered slightly wrong, it wasn't a full cheap cap found inside, but it was a modern cap internals inside the old school exterior. Here's the pic. No, it wasn't opened because there was something wrong, it was opened out of curiosity.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
    Truckdoctor Andy and G-son like this.
  23. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Pretty sure the bogus guitar caps were discovered when they didn't perform well.
     
  24. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,422

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    Yes I agree a lot of people post about having spare points and condenses in the trunk. I have never carried a spare module
     
  25. G-son
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,277

    G-son
    Member
    from Sweden

    I'd bet a lot of people threw the old, replaced, almost worn out parts in the trunk back then, and drove around with them for ages. They've just forgotten that they actually had the spares there so long ago. ;)
     
  26. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,701

    34Larry
    Member

    :rolleyes::D
     
  27. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,701

    34Larry
    Member

    I am advised by Jim the wiring guy who wired my hot rod to keep a spare and keep it in the car for any eventuality.
    BYW parts house said I'd have it yesterday, still waiting. Hate that kind of shit, even though I like the place and guys,I may have to change parts suppliers. (I waited for the dual Edelebrock carbs I just installed for more than (4) weeks, when I was told (2) weeks.) This is a great shop, full machine shop, very knowledgeable guys who build everything but........................................
     
  28. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,942

    squirrel
    Member

    I have a pretty low tolerance for waiting for parts...I live in a kind of small town, so if it's not in stock, but is a common item in the big city, I can get it overnight, pretty reliably from the local stores. But if it's a special order, I just get the parts myself from the internets.
     
  29. garyf
    Joined: Aug 11, 2006
    Posts: 283

    garyf
    Member

    I have heard at one time electronic ign. components were made with materials that stood up to heat ,vibration ect . The offshore companies found they could use cheaper material that would work ok but when needed would fail. The lower price caused the good products to almost vanish from existence .
     
  30. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,701

    34Larry
    Member

    Well jest to let ya all know, module is here, its installed and it fired right off. :):):cool::cool::D:D Thank to all that responded.
     
    Blues4U and s55mercury66 like this.

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