Technical Electronic ignition module?

Pulled out of the garage parked and went about cleaning the place up. Sometime later the great granddaughter, (18 now and gaining an interest in cars), asked if she could hear it run. Start it would not. Have never had this problem in the past ever. I go over every ign. wire to be sure they are where the ought to be, no problem. Gas its got. Figure it is the module then.
Yesterday morning, breakfast with my great bud Jim Carmichael, the master guru of all guru's in my world who completely wired this 34 and he says, "most likely". So now one is on order from my best speed shop buds and won't be in until next Tuesday.
Now..........being the dullest tool in the shed when it comes to auto electric systems, this morning I've done a fast study on line of such things, both old school and new electronic systems, and while still more than a little confused but learning, I have a question.
Since in my reading I know and understand that there are no moving parts in this system and that the module has replaced the old points system and is solid state my question is:
What causes a module to fail? Don't laugh (much please), the ignorant want to know.

 

It would help if you offered what kind of electronic ignition you have


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The only failures like that that I've been able to attribute to a preventable cause, are from things such as a poor ground connection on a system such as the Mallory Unilite, or a disconnected spark plug wire on a GM HEI. In both cases, the high voltage generated has no where to go but back into the module, and it damages the solid state parts.

But since all that fancy solid state electronic stuff is made from sand, it's kind of like black magic--not something that is easy to understand, possible to see, or possible to fix.

 

I convert everything I drive and use to electronic ignition. However if it quits you cant get out and fiddle with the points coil ect and get it running again. That is why I keep a spare electronic dist. or the old points dist and coil under the seat. Ive had the pickup in the dist fail as often as the coil in the cap.

 

I used to convert them all to electronic, but I got over that several years ago. I was going to drive my wife's Dart to a Mopar friend's funeral yesterday, but the damn thing wouldn't start, stupid electronic ignition. I'm going to put points back in it.

 

Solid state electrics are comparable to a light bulb.

It works now, go back 10 minutes later and “ poof” it’s blown.
No real rhyme or reason most of the time as to why electronic stuff fails.

Other then bad connections, moisture,vibration, heat etc.
Most of the time it’s just a fuck you I’m out !

 

Electronics fail for basically one of three reasons; more-or-less in order, they are overcurrent, heat, and vibration.

I'm not a fan of the 'under the cap' electronic ignitions as robustness is usually related to component size. Miniaturization is used to get it all inside the cap, so compromises have to be made.

 

I had never heard of this kind of failure before, but my car has a GM HEI in it. Thursday Theresa and I drove the car quite a bit, it was running fine, parked it in the garage, Friday night went to start it and no go. No fire at the plugs, had 13 volts to the distributor. Picked up a new module, installed it and starts and runs like a top. No explanation for the failure except it was a foreign made module. I have never seen one fail like that.

 

Since Larry did not say whether the engine was hot at the time he tried to restart it, it very well could be that the HEI went to sleep. But since it never woke back up after cooling off it may have just died in its sleep.

I fought and fought and fought what I thought was vapor lock until one day after my engine wouldn't start I pulled a plug wire and there was no fire at all. But after cooling off it worked fine. Some GM HEIs will do that. Replacing the module with an "MSD heat" module fixed it. Summit and Jegs has them.

Not to hijack the thread, I thought this is a good opportunity to spread the word on HEI failures, here is a link to my website that covers the issue :

https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/Fighting-Vapor-Lock/

 

In my experience if the electronic ignition module is the older GM there is no warning, one minute it's running and the next minute it's dead. HRP

 

I've had the HEI GM modules blow and the car wouldn't start but once I had a little V/6 buick that would start and idle but as soon as you gave it throttle, the engine died. New module fixed it. All my cars have electronic ignition.

 

Ahh once again the ineptness raises up and bites the ignorant.
This is on a '55 Chrysler hemi with a electronic ign. from
Hot Heads Mopar parts. Its been awhile since I got it and installed it
but I believe its a adapted 60's something Dodge Dart Distributor
49 Ford I did let it cool down a lot, it did start. I put it back in the Garage.
Next morning and since, no start.

 

It’s like this,,,
When they work they work
When they don’t they don’t.
You guys are lucky it quits in the driveway or parked in its spot.


There’s a pretty good explanation of grounds and ignitions here on the Hamb.
With a Chevy and other similar thru intakes with a gasket- it is pretty easy to mess up the required ground to the distributor.

 

Uncle B. Mopar, running a '55 Chrysler Hemi through a converted 60's something Doge Dart distributor purchased from Hot Heads a few years back. Thanks for asking, I should have included that. I'm now inclined to think modules are like incandescent light bulbs. Good now, maybe not a minute from now.

 

The mopar electronic ignition from the 1970s-80s has the added bonus of a pickup coil that requires adjustment...if it's off, it will do interesting (usually intermittent) things. Remember those feeler gauge sets you used to get that had one or two brass fingers in them? used for setting the reluctor wheel gap. And when things get loose, the gap changes. Just like with points.

 

Not always... I had a early version electronic ignition on a OT car that hated my now-ex wife. It would quit on her, but she couldn't give a coherent explanation of symptoms when I'd show up to retrieve her. I'd get there, it would start right up for me... She'd refuse to drive it, I'd drive it to work for multiple days with no issue, she'd want the car back because she didn't like my truck. This went on for 3-4 months. It finally momentarily failed while I was driving (nearly blowing the mufflers off the car!), I immediately knew it was ignition.

She couldn't work the door locks for some reason either, never did figure out what that was about...

 

wife's Dart used to quit about the same spot on her drive home from work, it would start right up when I tried it.

Black magic

 

When It first came out in the 70,s my father in law had a service station at hwy 64 and I40 at Conway ar. had two wreckers a 72 ford and a brand new chevy. He stayed busy towing Chevrolets that the electronic ignition quit back to the chevy dealer. one day when on a tow the electronic ignition failed on his new chevy. He had to be towed by the old ford. He had me convert his wrecker to a points dist. Gave me the electronic dist. I messed with it and changed to coil in the cap and fixed it. eventually I changed from hating electronic ign to liking it. Now with the sorry gas and unable to buy anything other than resistor spark plugs. I convert everything I use to electronic ign. even my chain saws have electronic ign. A engine that burns oil hardly fouls a spark plug with electronic ign. I even take the HEI from Pontiac 301 engines and use them in my older 50,s tin indian mills. Those 70,s ford trucks you would see sometimes multiple aluminum modules attached to the inner fenders. when one got hot and quit . they would just switch the wiring harness to a different one and let the hot one cool off LOL

 

I have to agree with Old Wolf, again!..I'm currently putting an slightly too new to be HAMB friendly 4+4 work truck and I plan to use an electronic ignition but carry a spare points dizzy and coil....won't even need an ignition switch as ill carry a jumper wire...damn electronic stuff left me walking twice but it does make them run better when it's working!

 

Just had my 2nd Petronix go “ nodules up” out of the blue on my hot rod flathead. Changed back to points (shortened Chevy dist on rt angle drive) fires right up—-does not run quite as well with point, but will get you home! 2 electronic ign have burned out over a 6 year period with less than 15,000 miles traveled total.

 

I'd add overvoltage too. As when someone pulls of the ignition wires so the spark has nowhere to go from the coil, and sends a jolt back to the electronics that feed it instead.

 

x2

I commend those like yourself, that can and do make 100% traditional rods and customs totally reliable.

I'd bet you sometimes zone out while staring at your cars, then have that warm fuzzy feeling that the cars are everything that you ever wanted them to be...."old school... with no excuses".

Very few owners drive their cars in my area unless to a show. I'm hoping to have sacrificial daily driver before the next winter, but till then, this has been a true daily. Finally another 32 showed up at the dam I visit often. He loves his, and I feel the same about what I built from used junk. There isn't a single part of his entire build that dates before 2004, and yet we ended up at the same place...and both of us had a good time bs'ng about cars and actually driving them.

 

I think it was Henry Ford himself who said, "Points will get you home."

 

I have had a few Rotor Buttons for better words burn a hole through themselves and stop an GM HEI dead in its tracks , running down the road then dead as Kelsey’s Nuts . I always once a season clean and inspect the contacts on the cap and replace the rotor button , on a GM HEI ignition

 

Overvoltage per se isn't what kills it; when voltage goes up, it pushes more current in and the current kills it.

It's always amps that lets the smoke out.... LOL

 

Timely thread, had a Pertronix Ignitor II go out yesterday. Put the points back in and limped home. Bench tested the module today (+ to red wire, - to mounting bracket, VM between black wire and +), no voltage showing when passing the reluctor by. Unit was on the vehicle for several years and had been flawless.

This is on an old fire truck with a manual choke, driven by several born AC (after carburetion), and frequently flooded. My question is: could trying to start a severely flooded engine that's not sparking overload the module and cause failure? Only thing I can think of.

 

Cool two turtles crossing near the stream......

 

O/P : heat and leaving the ignition on even for a short time without the engine running....

 

Guess I've been pretty fortunate. I've put a ton load of miles on Mopars with electronic ignition without a failure. I used to carry a few extra parts, but for the most part, don't do it much anymore.
My coupe has a "computer" on it, its been there for over 50K miles, and many more miles on it before "it" was in the coupe. I do have a spare computer I carry, but I don't expect to ever need it.
When you drive a hot rod 10,000 miles a year, you sort of expect the possibility of being towed home at some point exists. Gene