Projects Sneek peek at the Pierce Arrow dash panel I did for my '32

chickenridgerods, I know for a fact that Old Time Speed buy directly from Hot Rod Works to supply their products to the Australian market. Best to get your facts right before accusing someone of theft.

 

I've got an Alchemy quality panel and I'm very happy with it.

Bob

 

Elrod, I know Terry, and I know for a fact that he is remanufacturing the Hotton Sullivan heads with the blessing of Don Hotton...and they have been improved over the original design.....they are not a direct copy. As for the dual plug heads he does not make them....he import the Hogan heads from New Zealand. The angle drive was made from scratch...it may look remotely similar to one made around 40 years ago, but then so do most aftermarket cylinder heads, manifolds, etc. You are quick to accuse him of copying everything but you don't know the facts. I have looked at all the comments on this page and can't believe how petty some of you people are. If no one made any of these parts what would happen to hot rodding? Would everyone have to resort to running a late model crate engine? I know for one that I would much rather see more flatheads and vintage engines being used, and for that to happen there needs to be aftermarket parts available.

 

chickenridgerods
We have not stolen any images or designs from Hot Rod Works.
you ALSO STATE it is BLATANT THEFT
Well I would like you to PROVE that. I am waiting and will be waiting for ever for you too do so.

We purchase all the above parts from Hot Rod Works to sell here in Australia and can prove this as we have all the invoices and payment records for our purchases.
Before you shoot your mouth off one should put brain into gear and think hard about what crap you are going to spew out of ones mouth.

 

For anybody who wants to use one, I would recommend cutting out the entire original oval opening (for gauge clearance) with a cut-off wheel. That way, they could offer it to someone with a roached dash, or save it if they ever decide to return to a stock-style dash.

Sent from my SM-G892A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Thats great that some of the stuff is being reproduced with permission or purchased directly from the real manufacturer. I have no problem with that and it helps the hobby.
But since its been brought back to the forefront, lets get back to the original topic of discussion...the dash panel. Maybe ranchy or Elco Heads can tell us what is the pedigree of the panel being sold by Oldtimespeed and the photos used in its advertising?

 

Okay, time to clear this up. I spoke with Terry and he filled me in on how he came to have the sample dash panel. He bought the sample from a guy in Ballarat, Australia who had purchased it from a guy in Perth, Western Australia who had been casting them in brass. I saw his sample panel and it was brass, so obviously not one of Alchemy's. Terry told me he had not seen any of Alchemy's posts at this time and therefore knew nothing of his panels. The guy in Perth said he was not casting any more so Terry decided to take up where he left off and cast them himself. It was only after spending a lot of time and money on patterns and casting that he started searching for pictures of Pierce Arrow dashes and came across pics of dashes....still not aware that they were from Alchemy. The rest is history. Bottom line is that if anyone wants to protect a design they need to put a patent on it. If any of you have ever bought replacement parts for a muscle car ( or any car for that matter ) they are probably a copy of the original part....that is how the whole aftermarket business operates. Without this aftermarket business we would have no way of restoring or modifying cars and our hobby would die. One more thing that Terry mentioned to me was that after he found out that Alchemy had also made these dash panels he searched his posts on HAMB and found that Alchemy claimed it was a small run and that he would not be making any more. Therefore he didn't see any problem in continuing making his to fill the demand. Again, if any part is supposed to be a limited production and never be made again you put a design patent on it. If a part is in demand and no longer available then someone, somewhere, will step up to the plate and make it. It's the old adage of supply and demand.

 

Given that you fail to mention that you are selling Hot Rod Works parts on numerous listings - and your past history of copying parts - one could easily come to the quoted conclusion. If you are indeed an authorized reseller of HRW parts and are using their images and descriptions with permission, fantastic; you should make note of it on all of the relevant item listings (and should have from the start).

How about you send one of these Old Time Speed panels over here to the United States so that it can be compared side-by-side with one of the Alchemy panels? That should reveal differences in size, shape, and features between the two. If they were indeed created independently, then these differences would be immediately noticeable.

 

I would hope a HAMB'r wouldn't rip off another HAMB'r.
Ranchy gives a plausible explanation, may have been better if he didn't have to relay it.
Chickenridgerods has a good suggestion-will cost someone or two a few bucks though.

 

I did make one bronze panel. Been a long time but I think it was number 5 in the series.

I know my work, and I can guarantee 100% that these panels are copied directly from my panel. But these guys don’t seem to mind. They’ve got lots of excuses to legitimize their theft.

 

Ok, so you're saying OTS didnt use an Alchemy panel as a pattern because the one used was brass and bought from a guy who bought it from a guy. If that is the case, was the original brass maker contacted and asked if his could be reproduced for commercial sale? Do you even know if that guy was the dude who created the master pattern from scratch (or commissioned it)?
Plus, isnt it a little unethical to use photos taken by someone else of a different manufactures product and try to pass it off as your work? Thats a slimy thing to do to a manufacturer, photographer, and customer.

 

To chickenridgerods.
I really do not know why you are still bringing up the matter of Hot Rod Works products, given the explanation that Ranchy was good enough to post. Maybe you just enjoy an argument or is that you need to have the last word. There is no requirement for us to list HRW as the manufacturer of the parts listed. If we were claiming they were manufactured by us then that would be a different story. We have a good working relationship with Nick at HRW and you are most welcome to call him if you are not happy with that. As has already been explained the dash panel was purchased here in Australia and had been cast in Bronze here in Australia. Please refer to photo lower. If that explanation is still not enough for you then you are most welcome to contact me and purchase one of our dash panels for a comparison. I have no idea what the difference will be as I have never seen one of Alchemys's panels in person.

To Alchemy
As previously explained the Bronze sample was purchased from a person in Ballarat who purchased it from a person in Perth Australia who had cast a few of them. I was told at the time that the person in Perth had ceased casting them as he was having problems with the process of casting them. As also stated, at the time I was not aware that you had also cast them. It is possible that the person in Perth had taken a copy from yours.... but I have no way of knowing if he did. May I also remind you that you also copied a design by Pierce Arrow and modified it..... yet as soon as some one else does the same you are jumping up and down and calling them a thief. Maybe you are just as much a thief as anyone that reproduces an item. What we have stated are explanations, not excuses. You can believe what you want ... that is your choice. You are most welcome to purchase one of our dash panels we cast and do a comparison... then you can say if you can guarantee 100% or not that they were a direct copy of yours. I do not know why you can accuse me of being a theft when you do not own the rights to the Peirce Arrow design. If you own the rights to that design please show me. Again you copied the Pierce Arrow design and modified it a little.... it was not a totally original design by yourself. I can tell, you manufacture some good quality products and I am impressed with the quality and workmanship. However it does not help the car scene much if you do not want anyone else making products and get upset if they do. You are not the only one wanting to keep this hobby of ours alive and help it by making rare and hard to find parts available.

To Corn Fed
If the sample dash panel was made by a company that was still operating yes, they would be contacted. We could only go by what we were told by the seller of the dash panel, unfortunately we had no way to find or contact the person in Perth. so we decided to go ahead and make the panel. As far as we knew he had copied a Pierce Arrow design and had made a few alterations for it to fit a Brookville 32 dash. As it turned out this what Alchemy did also. As for using other people's photos and trying to pass them off as our own product... that was not our intention and we apologise if that is how it looked. The photos were merely there to show people how they looked with gauges in them. The photos have since been removed.

This thing has blown out ridiculously, and we are all now reduced to being keyboard warriors rather than a bunch of guys sharing a common hobby. The item that has caused this commotion was made in good faith to supply people with the same interests as us.
This is the LAST RESPONSE I will be giving on these matters. As Hot Rodders we want to be able to supply parts so this great hobby of ours can continue and thrive. If all the aftermarket manufacturers stopped making parts because some one made them first ...... then Hot Rodding would die a horrible death, so in conclusion lets stop being petty and argumentive.. and try and get on with our common interest.
Thank you.

 

Hey @Ryan can you lock this thread? I know nothing will ever come from this argument and I am tired of it. They are on the other side of the world and there’s nothing I can do to stop them. And every time this comes back to the top it is free advertising to Raunchy and Wills operation. Seems there are even guys replying to this thread that support them.

 

After all the heartache of having my work product stolen, it's nice to see one of my panels in a gorgeous roadster that was a top runner for the 2020 AMBR. Thanks Mr. Firth.

 

Terry Wills is dead.