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Projects Timm builds a model A

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tim, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. It's about 7" across and a 2 1/4" throat.
     
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  2. RoddyB34
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 543

    RoddyB34
    Member

    5841FABF-DFF3-494F-8B74-B43C29DE3E21.jpeg 9E27FEBB-D705-4A15-89BE-D45FDAB58689.jpeg I’m running out of patience so just went the after market air cleaner route,,I like the old style too,, been driving around on a permit doing a bit of testing,,found there is vibration down low in revs ,as I used the model A type side mounts I realise I haven’t used the spacers to stop the rubbers from quashing tight ,,we need to lower the rear spring and raise the front,,
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  3. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    from KCMO

    Been messing with the steering column and etc a bit lately but nothing worth posting yet.

    Did have this idea cross my mind though 3BBA2303-A250-4F24-A56A-70C982998378.jpeg F1142F41-A89E-4ED1-B37D-C03A815FEBC0.jpeg
    E215DA6D-A823-4276-B88F-D68B119008A2.jpeg
    Was in Indy and spied this side plate with the breather 5C6D4BB8-04ED-44B4-8F5F-76AC895A364C.jpeg
    Had that polished breather on my shelf and thought I’d mock it up. Bolt holes almost line up even! Not sure if I dig it but it’s an option.

    I’ve seen quite a few inline chevys with a breather in the side plate and nothing in the valve cover

    While I like keeping the cover clean and clear I’m wondering if it will clutter up the spark side of the engine.

    Or even clear the distributor lol.

    Anyhow just an idea
     
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  4. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    F7A97C3E-B35F-4D4F-84D6-18322874C81A.jpeg
    Also saw this online last week and have considered making some sort of bolt on top half to match the mercruiser side plate.

    I think some flat plate aluminum and a table saw would make quick work of it
     
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  5. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    @drdave has got me thinking maybe I go for the super low front spring and do a T spring in back to drop the ass down.

    I really need to get this thing cinched down tight and rolled outside to take a real work look at the stance.

    A tape measure and a shit load of photos says it’s the same as Tardels green one in the new book but I’m just not 100% sold yet in it being g low enough
     
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  6. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,777

    Six Ball
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    from Nevada

    I picked up one of these valve covers last week. I wish there was a head too. I don't know if I'll use it on the roadster engine or not. That depends on how the sheet metal one I'm planning comes out. I like the breather idea if it clears the distributer.
    patterns3.jpg
     
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  7. I was shooting for Tardel's look as well. I may be a smidge too far down...can't believe that would come out of my mouth. May end up putting a leaf back in both the front and the back. We will see how it drives this weekend at the SK, but I did seem to bonk something going over bumps in the driveway at 25 mph.
     
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  8. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    from KCMO

    I’m curious to find out what bumps
     
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  9. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    That’s pretty cool! Any info on the heads?
     
  10. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,777

    Six Ball
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    from Nevada

    CNC Dude here had the patterns for a while but I think he sold them. 4 & 6 cylinder blocks, heads, timing covers, side covers, all of it. There just isn't enough money in it justify the cost of producing that stuff anymore. But there may be a roller cam in the works.
    patterns1.jpg
     
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  11. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    from KCMO

  12. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    Thinking I’m going to swap to a T rear spring after seeing @drdave four door. I already need a new front main and keep going threw my options as far as “low” or “super low”

    I’m thinking I’ll go with posies super low in front, notch the rails if i have to and do the T in back. My thinking is two fold. 1: it’s way easier to lift the car up some after its together than try to drop is a ton more 2: I think it’ll look just as cool with the fenders but even cooler with out the fenders with it being lower.

    I really have planed like 5 different hood set up, several wheel tire and cap combos to change the car up super easy and it had been in my head to run it fenderless with the aprons left on as an option but it’s just to tall for me right now to dig it like that.

    Figure some quick disconnects/ bullet fitting for the tail lights and a mount that bolts to the holes for the fender braces in back. Maybe a dropped headlight bar for the front? Who knows. I just like the option of changing the car up with out having to build another car.


    Current projects - steering. My friend is welding up the cracks in the frame bracket. We got the column un locked by basically obliterating the lock and pin. We then found the box was stuck as well so I’ve started to take it apart. Still fighting the cap but I’ve got a plan.

    Plan for now is clean and grease the box once it’s freed up. Taper the pitman arm from the other side, taper the bottom of the passenger side steering arm, bolt it back together and move onto the column brace on the dash.

    Thinking I’ll put the dimmer switch were the lock cylinder used to live and put the back up light switch where the switch used to sit on the face. Been trying to figure out switch/ indicator lights where they are easy to use and get to but aren’t in your face enough to notice. Kind of hiding in plane sight.

    Baby steps but all part of the plan.
     
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  13. I like your idea of having ways to change up the car depending on the mood....helps fend of boredom. ;)

    I think you will be happy with a T spring out back. I'm on the hunt for one for ya. :)
     
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  14. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    Doesn’t take much to really change the attitude as witnessed by all the features over the years in hop up, the rodders journal and hot rod of a car or two wearing ten different sets of shoes.

    Heck even ditching the hood and the hub caps gives it a different look. Doesn’t take much
     
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  15. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    485CC4F3-0FF7-42A3-A814-A1BE288EA82D.jpeg So I stuck my head under every full A at the Pete and Jakes open house this weekend and they all pretty much had this shock set up. Which looking at my car seems like it would be pointing the top of the shock towards the back to work.

    I happen to have a set of those upper shock mounts so I’ll test it out but I think I’ll stick to the fender brace idea.

    Only reason it seems/seemed appealing is that it causes less hassle to run fender-less should I want to. I’ve got a second set of fender braces that are the cast type. I’m thinking maybe I cut them up and make upper shock mounts on them so my shock position doesn’t change. And then add a headlight bar across to keep them braced and have a spot to land my headlights that doesn’t look weird.

    Sorta like Bass has his red roadster but visually different 7B033A5D-0E6E-4F31-8ACB-2F3022BFD978.jpeg 5FD86677-3B6C-4DEF-8A8B-F6FCB50466C2.jpeg 9CD118AB-C5E2-4E89-8BD2-633AD3EE7E63.jpeg
    Few borrowed shots so you can get the jist.

    I’ve got most of the steering components in some state of taken apart at the moment, I’m waiting till it’s either all the way apart or all the way back together before I post an update though. Just kinda chipping away at the little stuff
     
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  16. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,777

    Six Ball
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    from Nevada

    Are you thinking of a radically dropped axle? Do you see the sand flying from the center in the first picture? Think of a flat and a small rock. Every inch of drop at the spindle is an inch closer to a road grader blade in the center. It only has to happen once in a lifetime of fun. :eek:
     
  17. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    He’s got it buried up to the spindle on the drivers side he’s plowing regardless haha.

    I’m staying with the 4 inch drop axle I’ve got on it now and anything in the way is about to get shorter lol
     
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  18. You noticed how close those P&J style upper shock mounts either come close to or in my experience interfere with the fender brace. I cut mine at the frame, cocked them outward slightly, and re-welded. It puts them way too close to vertical for me, but I think they work. I like your idea, Tim, because it "hotrods" old parts.
     
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  19. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    Got a photo @osage orange ?

    And yeah I got mine from speedway but they look the same. I’m sure it works but i’m Just not feeling it.
     


  20. This is before I cut and rewelded the upper mounts. No place for the top loop of the shock to go. Cutting them and leaning them away from the frame just enough to accommodate the shock top link works well enough. IMG_2474.JPG IMG_2473.JPG IMG_2474.JPG
     
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  21. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    Well I was hoping this would be an update about how I got my steering box rebuilt and now the car steers.

    It’s not.

    But I did learn a crap ton about these old steering boxes and took a lot of photos. I need to save up some cash for some new gears and etc and then it’ll go together. I’m actually considering letting my two year old put it back together. It’s seriously that simple.

    Anyhow, photos right?

    DF6AC57F-A24C-45BB-B448-A4CE5E75995B.jpeg I had been soaking this thing in kroil about once or twice a month for the last year or two. The four bolts that hold the cap on, the 4 in the end cap, and the adjustment screw cap, washer and the oil fill plug all cane out super easy 03974F35-9A00-40F9-8AAC-9B63303E79F4.jpeg
    This pile of rust dust was letting me know that the easy going was about to be over.

    I consulted a ton of books, websites and exploded diagrams such as this one. I did the exploded diagrams super helpful. It makes some since of how it goes together and the part numbers are still relevant. F2848597-4D75-4EB8-BCE5-420BA76D2375.jpeg
    This was where it started to fight me. 1E89B199-3D78-4630-B2E4-C2D0BABCD000.jpeg more after dinner ;)
     
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  22. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    from KCMO

    Alright, well this was my next fight.
    If the box isn’t a frozen up mess you can take the top four bolts out, remove the pitman arm off the sector and pull it up and out.

    Or take a flat blade screw driver and turn the adjustment screw out of the washer and then pop the cap off.

    36D3E404-2121-4CB7-BE5A-BE6DC3413577.jpeg The adjustment screw has a dome on one end that pushes on the sector roller/gear. It passes threw the square washer ~ the hole is offset not in the middle of the washer- the washer slides into the slots on the top of the sector.

    Then the adjustment screw threads into the cap. It’s all very snug
    5E3C0E3F-0F8D-4909-BF1A-91B03EFF6387.jpeg
    And here you see how I actually got it off. I pushed the sector into the box enough that I could slide the washer out and remove the cap

    Note the ridiculous amount of rust dust that came out while hammering on it 9435D850-D2C2-41D1-8CC6-DC7B2B0E661C.jpeg cap removed with the very firmly in place adjustment screw.
     
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  23. Yo, Tim...just a word of caution regarding the Speedway upper shock mounts: I hit a chuck hole up on south 72nd street last fall and bottomed out a shock. My Speedway shock mount had absolutely beautiful tig welds and that's where the mount broke. I could see there was NO weld penetration. Both the vertical weld to the frame piece and the vertical piece-to-top tube broke off. Might wanna reweld the mounts before using. 34shockmt.jpg
     
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  24. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    from KCMO

    Around then it got pretty stubborn and I dunked it all in some citrus acid after seeing @flatout51 have some good luck CDC78190-D9C5-4578-AE7F-7008F0B4DA1D.jpeg cleaned up pretty great! Eats up rust but doesn’t touch plating or paint, seems to neutralize easy enough with a rinse with water. It’s pretty mild stuff. 56F5E972-AE8A-46A2-973A-65D0EB66936A.jpeg Here you can see the top of the sector clearer 378DA8CB-C651-4806-8749-7106F7F8BDDB.jpeg cleaned up the pitman arm nice too. 4E46C990-C838-407D-A83E-6017B7343623.jpeg Eventually I couldn’t get it any further and took it to a friends house to stick it in his press to move it out.

    Here you can see that it came out with one of the two bushing. The other is still about half out out. 09251B9B-4821-410F-8DBB-67B57CA1D9BE.jpeg You can see that the gears are pretty ate up AE31302D-9569-4103-B006-61F8D1B07624.jpeg the next step in our journey was more acid soaks and starting to try and figure out what exactly this set up is.
     
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  25. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    @Rocky I remember that! I don’t plan on using the ones I have but if I change my mind I’ll give them a good look :)
     
  26. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    Alright because some things seemed weird and I’m obsessive about things I wanted to know.

    When I took the column mast off I noticed that the column shaft itself had been taking a beating, like the column lock was missing the slot it fits into and just smashing into the shaft instead

    I also notice that in all the drawings that the 39’ boxes had the headlight switch and rubber boot on the bottom and this one didn’t have any of that.

    Also the steering column mast was in pretty rough shape. That’s actually where all the rust in the box came from I think. Just running down like a gutter pushing what used to be the mast into the box. Also it had a slot in the bottom of the mast that should have had a corresponding groove in the box itself.

    None of the prefix numbers were readable enough to see what the year was so figuring that the gears - roller and worm- are all the same 37-48 I was about to just move on when I decided that I wasn’t comfortable with the beat up steering shaft.
    BF7161EA-3BE7-4467-B142-1524BCC0C2FB.jpeg
    Macs sells new shafts with the worm already on but I see that the offer two different ones.
    44AAA668-557F-4058-A921-60AE8EC82367.jpeg Some searching and I found this! 6F10D980-9E46-4D1C-AEED-41B3D85B6EE5.jpeg 90DEEE4C-7E75-4411-85B8-B535007E7685.jpeg 7D4FA40B-790D-4E3D-BFF7-04A8F85E969F.jpeg I went threw the chart and figured out which I needed. It also got me curious how the 37-8 boxes use the same gears but have different measurements. Then it hit me! Different worm gear bearing races! 160737ED-250D-4A7E-9D5A-1D931AFD055E.jpeg sure enough their are different ones! I like to read part catalogs casually, it helps me figure out what I’m missing and often gives me a solution for a problem I encounter down the road. Any how in this case it jist meant I had the catalog sitting near me to check all this

    So the main differences in the shafts year to year seem to be length and were the column lock holes line up.

    Assembly differences seem to mostly be the races for the bearings on the steering shaft. They must sit in the box slightly different that the others? Who knows.

    But I think this is the “passenger 40 sedan delivery 41” box listed in the chart with a 39 truck column and drop. The column lock be in the wrong place and let it hit the shaft and it answers all the other questions. It would have been a bolt in swap to the 39 truck and as beat to shit as the box to frame mount was it’s believable that it needed replaced.

    So what now?

    Order a new shaft, worm gear, sector gear, roller pin, bearings, bushings and gaskets.

    Clean and paint it all.

    Get the rest of the bushings and stuff out of the box and build a new column mast to replace the one I removed. It was so rusted it ripped like a pop can when I twisted it by hand working on it.

    Should be a nice box in the end that should last forever and I’ll be able to steer the car into the driveway for the first time ever- and first time in the driveway in two years!

    That’s making it sound like less work than what it’s going to be but I’m looking forward to it and the things I’ll learn doing it.
     
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  27. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,531

    Stovebolt
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    Parden my ignorance , but what is the hole in the shaft used for?
     
  28. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    Good question!

    Their is a collar that screws onto the shaft. That’s one of two holes for that. The collar has a window in it and that’s where the column locks post fits into.

    I had to remove it when I took the shaft out. You push the shaft down and threw the box pushing out the bearings and races as you push down. The collar wouldn’t clear the box.

    I’ll post photos later today
     
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  29. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

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    Borrowed some photos from the internet hopefully this illustrates it fairly well 0BCC48E4-28A3-4B36-B395-2EA6AA46708E.jpeg follow the line from this number and you’ll see it’s placement 832947EB-4CA9-4701-8A6B-BDC17E5AF206.jpeg back side with the screws 2268A9D9-DDD9-40B6-BA1F-6E8FAF1A4F4C.jpeg the window for the lock to engage 3C9BD78F-9016-487A-B73F-91A9956942B5.jpeg it on the shaft with the tube next to it showing the window in the tube for the lock to pass threw
     
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  30. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,097

    Tim
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    So I’ve got a bunch of different little projects going on at the same time with the A. Some just getting picked at, some waiting in parts, some are being worked on by friends.

    Something that I’m pretty excited about is my buddy Joey -can’t recall his hamb handle at the moment- brought me this of cast chunk of model A from his roadster project! A709CE2D-1E82-498C-A89B-BCF02CF4C6EB.jpeg This is what I have in the car... 5FC7166B-2FEA-499D-AB9D-5D23F1F7C2C2.jpeg You can understand my excitement I’m sure haha.

    @Austin kays gave me the remnants of his subframe from his channeled A and between them all it looks like now all I need to come up with or fabricate will be this 4 or 5 inch stub that lands under the passenger A pillar 5B0EF6AE-D2E6-4035-A09B-61832A31B075.jpeg And about 15 inches of one of the top hate cross sections.

    I should be able to handle that with a decent brake and a couple hours to make more than one.

    Ultimately I plan on a box tube “clone” of the subframe to fill the hat space where the wood would normally go. Mostly to just give me some peace of mind when I’m barreling down the supper slab.

    Anyways, pretty excited :)
     
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