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Technical Model T rear transverse spring

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by VSO737, May 25, 2019.

  1. VSO737
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 237

    VSO737
    Member

    Remember, there's no such thing as a stupid question...………..so I've been told.

    My dilemma is having purchased a MODEL "T" low arch transverse spring for my Model A hot rod. The spring is TOO weak! I end up with approx. 1 1/2" from the rear end with a full load and not to mention bottoming out when going over the slightest road bump.
    I took care of the problem for now by installing a couple of coil springs.

    The transverse spring measures 38" from eye to eye. I have it installed on an S10 pickup rear axle and the perches are welded as far apart as possible on the axle. I DO NOT want to replace the rear axle.

    MY QUESTION: Would it be OK to purchase another exact spring and use some of the leaves to reinforce the one I have installed in the car. The spring comes with 5 leaves. I'm thinking maybe leaving the bottom one a single leaf and adding 3 leaves for a total of 8 ??

    Any input would be greatly appreciated.

    LG,
    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

  2. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 9,176

    manyolcars

    5 is not enough
     
  3. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,799

    flatford39
    Member

    You probably need at least one more spring if not two.
     
  4. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 9,176

    manyolcars

    8 may be enough. I think pickup had 10
     

  5. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,405

    alchemy
    Member

    Where did you buy that spring, and what are you trying to hold up with it? Sounds like it was intended for a light T-bucket with only 5 leaves.
     
  6. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 7,419

    A Boner
    Member

    Does Speedway provide a dimension for the distance between the spring perches?
     
  7. VSO737
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 237

    VSO737
    Member

    The spring is the 38", 2" buggy medium range height sold by "SPEEDWAY".

    YES, it is TOO weak. My ride is a 1930 Model A Sport Coupe with a 6" extended frame. If I recall correctly, my ride weighs around 2,600 lbs. I added a LOT of steel to the frame...……….LOL
    My frame is "Z'd" and boxed. The guy who built it used TWO "A" frames to accomplish the task and did a GREAT job...………….

    I want to keep my 1991 Chevy S10 rear axle. SO, I'm curious to know if it would be feasible to just purchase another like spring and add the leaves to the current one. Another words, double up on the leaves making them twice the thickness of just one spring.
    Also, should I cut the added leaves to STAGGER the pack, or just leave them to match in length. Another words, two of each with same length...…….doubling the width of each leaf I currently have.
    Hope I'm making myself understood...……………..

    Wonder if anyone has tackled this before.

    Placing COIL springs has helped in keeping the spring from compressing too much and making the car bottom out. The ride is NOT too good though. I would like to have a stronger spring.

    Thanks for the input,
    LG,
    Mike
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  8. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,405

    alchemy
    Member

    The way T and A springs have such a tight curve, it think each leaf is made for a specific spot and not really going to fit good in another spot. I think the diameter of the arch changes as the spring leaves go up.

    Maybe you could compare you current leaves and see if you think the arch diameter doesnt change much. If so, then it would probably be fine to purchase another spring and do what you are thinking. And yes, I would cut each new leaf to length so it fits in between the existing leaves.

    I'm guessing a sport coupe with extra weight on it should have at least 7 or 8 leaves, and maybe more.

    This Speedway spring might have a totally different arch from a stock T spring, so you are in uncharted waters. Can't really compare it to an original part.
     
  9. VSO737
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 237

    VSO737
    Member

    YES (see attached)
    I don't have an issue with how the spring was mounted...….the perches are welded properly and the spring is at the correct mounting specs.

    ONLY issue is that the SPRING is rated for a "T" and I have an extra heavy Model A.
    I did NOT know any of this when I built it. Looked great UNTIL I set the body on the spring.
    I want to KEEP the current SPRING and REAR AXLE, I just need for the SPRING to be strong enough to HOLD up the car...………….

    My question is could I accomplish this by just doubling up on the leaves from another like spring?

    Thanks for the response,
    LG,
    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

    1great40 likes this.
  10. VSO737
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 237

    VSO737
    Member

     
  11. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,091

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    A photo of your setup would help a lot
     
  12. VSO737
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 237

    VSO737
    Member

    "This Speedway spring might have a totally different arch from a stock T spring, so you are in uncharted waters."

    YES, this "SPEEDWAY" buggy spring is CUSTOM made and different than the ORIGINAL "T" spring.
    This is the reason I purchased it. This spring has a lower arch which makes it ride LOWER and closer to the rear axle. If my ride did NOT weigh so much, I would not be having this problem.
    When I say borrow leaves from another spring, I'm talking about using another EXACT spring to the one I already have. I would be purchasing another spring from "SPEEDWAY" and removing the leaves and put them on the spring I currently have. Another words, convert their spring from 5 leaves to 9 leaves.
    This SPEEDWAY spring is also 2" and NOT the 2.25" that the MODEL A cross member takes. This also contributes to it being WEAKER than what I need.

    I realize it would be counter productive to my original intent of LOWERING the vehicle but at this point I just want a NICER RIDE. I plan on making up the height difference later on with larger rear wheels. I don't like the excessive gap between my rear wheels and fender.
    I plan on selling my 16" original Kelsey Hays artillery wheels in the future. Right now I run them with wheel adapters and inner tubes.

    Thanks again for the response,
    LG,
    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

    catdad49 likes this.
  13. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,405

    alchemy
    Member

    Yep, I mean that the arch to me seems like it gets larger as it goes up. Like the layers of an onion. You peel one layer off, and the next layer is smaller. But maybe that's not how these springs are built. Can you take your spring apart and lay one leaf above the next to see if it has the same arch?

    Maybe even if the arch diameters are getting bigger as they go up, you would still be close enough using the same position leaf from the donor spring. Not enough gap to worry about?

    And, I like those wheels. Some bigger rubber on those wheels would be great.
     
  14. VSO737
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 237

    VSO737
    Member

    I agree, think the gap will be minimal once you place the same length leaf on top of each other.
    It's been four years since I messed with the spring. Next time I get under the car, I will take a closer look of all I did to it. I know I spent a lot of AGRAVATION moments dealing with it. It will be this WINTER project for me...……
    Not looking forward to removing the spring or lowering the rear end for that matter. I remember what work it took to mount the spring.
    Next time I will build the spring up after installing only the first leaf. Either that or using a spring spreader...……………...LOL

    YES, I agree with the bigger tires. These are the BIGGEST radial tires that I could legally/safely install on these 16" X 4.5" rims. Inner tubes were also used for safety reasons.
    In the future, I will purchase new artillery wheels, maybe 15" x 8" and put much bigger tires in the rear. By installing new wheels I will also eliminate the use of wheel adapters.

    Hot rod is like a house, it NEVER gets done...………………...LOL

    Thanks for all the input,
    LG,
    Mike
     
    catdad49 likes this.
  15. VSO737
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 237

    VSO737
    Member

    Glad to hear someone has tackled this before. I knew I couldn't be the first one...………...LOL

    Thanks for the input. Now, I can't wait till winter so I can play around with the spring AGAIN.

    LG,
    Mike
     
  16. Mr cheater
    Joined: Aug 18, 2010
    Posts: 611

    Mr cheater
    Member

    I did what you are thinking about doing. I originally bought a reverse eye spring when that didn’t work I bought a standard eye spring and added a few more leaves and it seemed to work better [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPad using H.A.M.B.
     
    catdad49 likes this.
  17. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Does Speedway make a heavier spring for Model As?
     
  18. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,405

    alchemy
    Member

    I think he's stuck with his current spring because it has such a narrow perch width, and all the stock size springs were too wide for his modern rearend.
     
  19. VSO737
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 237

    VSO737
    Member

    ALCHEMY- "you hit nail in the head"...……..my exact issue. My rear end has perches welded (on top) to the exact specs this 38" eye to eye spring requires. Any heavier spring has a much wider eye to eye dimension.
    I just viewed one of my DVD's and took a picture of the rear end BEFORE the body weight was placed on it. Looks great out of the car...…………….LOL
    The rear axle is from a 1991 Chev S10 pickup. I'm pretty sure that I ended up putting the short leaves in the picture on TOP of the spring and not the way they appear in this picture.
    I will have to get under it and take a picture to see exactly how I ended up. I know I spent a lot of time on it years ago.

    I will be talking to the SPEEDWAY tech on Tuesday to see what his input is. I'm leaning towards purchasing another identical spring and making ONE BIG one. I'm going for the 9 leaves total...…….LOL
    Thanks again,
    LG,
    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

  20. VSO737
    Joined: Aug 24, 2005
    Posts: 237

    VSO737
    Member

    Just got off the phone with the SPEEDWAY tech.
    According to him, there should be no problem and it is something that is done all the time.
    As far as shortening the add on leaf, it could remain full length but it may not be a bad idea to shorten it to match the rest of the leaves.

    I will make another entry/follow-up once I accomplish the task. I want to enjoy the ride for now...show season is amongst us.
    _________________________________
    FYI-
    This is MY FIRST and last hot-rod build. It took me 5 years + 5 months to complete. All done in my two car garage and everything is done by yours truly...…….as is evident in the result...……...LOL

    I have been wanting to build a hot-rod ever since high school. I can now cross it off my 'bucket list'.

    I could NOT have accomplished my dream WITHOUT the "H.A.M.B."-
    THANKS again to the many contributors through the years that have made my mission/dream possible.

    LG,
    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

    catdad49 likes this.

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