Projects 1958 dodge d100

Howdy y'all,
I'm new to this forum so I'm sorry if this is the wrong way to go about this. I have a 58 dodge d100 that has sat outside most of its life and hasn't run in 30 years. (ill try to attach pictures) its currently inside a climate controlled environment where most of the work will be done. I replaced the coil, condenser, plug wires, and spark plugs in an effort to try and get spark. it's the I6 motor which I think is a 230 and it got the 3-speed transmission. I poured gas down the carb to try and get it to fire and it either backfires out the carb or through the exhaust (the exhaust broke just before the muffler so it's quite loud) What steps should I start with, in trying to get it to be driveable? Thank you!
-Jackson Householder

 

IMG_1226 by Jackson_householder posted May 22, 2019 at 10:19 AM

IMG_8527 by Jackson_householder posted May 22, 2019 at 10:19 AM

IMG_2486 by Jackson_householder posted May 22, 2019 at 10:19 AM

IMG_1996 by Jackson_householder posted May 22, 2019 at 10:19 AM

 

Your pictures didn't make it. Unless you are planning to hot rod your truck you probly should be asking for help on The "Mopar Flathead Truck Forum" Google it!! This is a great site for all things hot rod and custom and a lot can be learned here. But flathead 6 cylinder engines not so much. Don't leave, stick around for the excitement and learn all you can. Ralphie

 

Sounds like a timing issues to me if you're backfiring at both ends. First I'd check the firing order, then I'd find top dead center of no. 1 cylinder and see where the distributor is pointing.

My dad's 56 Chevy and my '53 both had the same issues, backfiring and wouldn't start. The '56 turned out to be 15 degrees off timing due to a Pertronics kit install (they don't clock in the same spot as points, they need to be re-timed) and my '53 was 180 degrees off. Never assume the timing and wires are in the right spots from the start.

 

Number one cylinder is the rear cylinder.
There is a bolt on top of the head you can remove and install a stiff wire or piston stop to find TDC.

Set you base timing
Make sure dist. Rotor is at #1
How’s the carb?
Clean , free, no leaks?

I would pull the side cover and head to see the valves, make sure nothing is stuck or gummed up.

Good battery , good cranking speed?

Good fuel pump ?
Clean lines and tank?

Try to repost your pics.

Parts are readily available for the online 6
Now while not a “hot engine”
Super reliable,cheap , easy for parts and will pull you down the road with ease.

Also behind the water pump is a water distribution tube, just a pipe with holes to direct water in the engine
Pulls out when you remove the w/pump. They like to rot out.

 

Do a compression test, if no compression chances are the valves are stuck. Otherwise, backfiring is most likely a timing issue.

#1 cylinder is the front cylinder. But, #1 and #6 rise and fall together. There is a little pipe plug above the #6 piston, if you remove it you can drop a screwdriver down on the piston and find TDC as you turn the engine by hand. Turn the engine until air wooshes out the front plug hole, that is the compression stroke. Find TDC with the screwdriver. Check that the points are just opening. You can do this with a 12V test light or by putting a cigarette paper between the points and slowly turning the distributor. The reason for using a screwdriver is, if you use a plain wire it can fall down into the cylinder. If you use something with a handle it is safer.

Now if you have compression, and the timing is right, and the plug wires are all in the right order (3 and 4 are easy to mix up) then it should fire.

 

You can also look into the cylinders with the plugs out and verify the opening and closing of the valves. I had the sticky valve issue last year on a 1955 230.

 

Not unusual for engines, especially flatheads, to develop sticky valves during a long sleep.
I'd pull the valve access covers, set the valve lash, and lube all the stems as well as make sure all are free.Wouldn't hurt to add some ATF in each plug hole and let it set several hours. the crank it to clear the oil, reinstall the plugs , new ones preferably, prime the carb and crank it over.
All that is after making sure the plug wires are installed in the right locations, as others have mentioned.
try to fix the pics, as we love pics. My 56 is getting a 58/60 clutch housing to help adapt an A833. 54-60 share very similar cabs.

 

Compression checked at 30-35psi so I’m soaking the head bolts in wd40 and atf, I plan on pulling the head, manifolds and seeing how that is before moving farther with this engine. The gas tank has holes in it and no longer holds gas and the fuel lines are non existent so it’s not gonna stay running, I just need it to actually fire so I can know if it’s worth the trouble or if I should look into a sbc swap or something similar. I can 3d print the carb gaskets so I’ll try to rebuild it and get that somewhere. If this carb is a no go are there other carbs that are gonna be a direct fit or is it better to just buy a 2bbl and custom make an intake manifold that works with it? I’ll try again with pictures of this car and I’ll try to keep y’all updated with progress, finals is next week so after then it should pick up a bit...

 

Pictures worked this last time for me. I like your truck. Gene

 

Don't give up yet.
Check your firing order (153624) and wire placement in the distributor, it looks a little off.
Pull #1 spark plug, put your finger in the hole and crank the engine till you feel compression, verify top dead center on #1 piston. Now pull the distributor cap and note the location of the rotor, this will be your starting point for #1 cyl.
If you're getting pops and backfires it's a good sign, it should be mechanically sound enough to run, these engines will run with very little compression.

 

5/6 were mixed up, and after looking at an image of a good one of these I think I shifted the plug wires over one. I’ll try and move them over from there and seeing if that helps

 

Quick update
I moved all the spark plug wires around and got the firing order to 153624 and it made noise for a second but consistent backfires on I think 3 so I put some atf in the engine so that will hopefully help the valves unstick, I’ll be out of town a few days so it should be plenty of time. I ordered a 1bblcarb for a “1965-1985 Ford F-150” it has the same bolt size and spacing and same gasket shape the only difference is 1mm bigger opening on the new carb so I’ll probably have to port the intake manifold a bit to account for that until I can get a tig welder and make a new one. I’ll be welding a gas tank for it this summer, what steps should I take to avoid corrosion inside the tank? Also are there places out there that sell disk brake conversion kits for the front brakes on this truck? Also is there a way to convert this to power brakes? I can deal with non power steering but I’d like to be able to stop easily... thanks!!!!
-Jackson Householder

 

Stick with it, you're making progress faster than you think.

 

I think if I’m gonna go so far as a chassis swap I’ll just build a new frame from the ground up and upgrade necessary parts as needed, and just keep the flathead. The reason being is I like the flathead if I can make it work, and I can control what the frame is like. What’ll probably end up happening is me converting the front end to independent front suspension and just keeping the rear end mostly stock (maybe different diff for highway cruising)

 

Do y’all have a good place to find a better/new starter? It cranks a little slower than I’d like and it won’t hurt to replace it

 

www.rustyhope.com used to make disc brake conversions for these old Dodge trucks. Its been a few years, so I don't know if he is still active these days.
If your thinking you will add an independent front suspension at some point, A Dakota front clip might be a good place to start, before you invest in a disc brake conversion. The Dakota has modern disc brakes, a rack & pinion steering that can be power or manual, and most importantly will attach to your frame pretty easily. Adding a power brake booster and master cylinder to your firewall would add power brakes.
Much of this stuff is considered off topic on this board, but I will be happy to offer some information, I've done this a few times. PM me if you have questions.

As far as mechanical original replacement stuff for your 58 Dodge, www.vintagepowerwagons.com and www.robertsmotorparts. com will both be helpful, both companies make restorations parts for the Dodges but specialize in the 39-47 era. Both offer parts that will fit your truck in limited quantity. Gene

 

A 6-volt starter will crank pretty good on 12 volts, but you might just have bad cables or connections.

 

His truck is twelve volt


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And a 6 volt starter should spin it over really fast!

 

sorry that I've been gone a few days, finals week is at its peak so I have not made much progress. I have found a 00 Dakota with a broken timing chain for about $500 so I might look into taking the front clip, trans, rear diff and driveshaft out of it if its a manual... my goal for this truck is to get it to driveable up to 65-70mph comfortably so that when I turn 16 I can use it to get to school and such. Eventually ill have to rebuild the engine and when I do I know a few machine shops so ill deck the block so it is even and ill get .06", I think, off the head to bump the compression up a bit. new carb gets here either tomorrow or Friday. My neighbor can do tests for asbestos so ill get the interior tested before I rip that apart. ill also test the paint for lead. is there a way to convert this engine to electronic ignition? I'm trying to keep the flathead but add a few modern touches to the car so that its more reliable, and safer.

 

Also, I found a local place that can rebuild the starter when it goes bad so once I get this car driving I'll take it there.

 

Before you go to the expense of a starter rebuild, make sure the cables are in good shape and the connections are clean and tight.

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I have not looked for a starter, mine works fine, I suspect you could get one off the shelf at napa.
When these engines sit for awhile, the rings tend to stick and you lose compression, soaking the cylinders is the right direction, then if it does start a few heat cycles may get the compression back where wanted.
I bought a new carb from Rockauto, also bought a carb rebuild kit .... so I rebuilt my old one, oiled and wrapped it and stuffed it in the rafters, running the new one now.
I also bought a fuel pump and a water pump from napa. They made these engines up into the 70's, parts are not that hard to get.

The timing can be tricky on these engines, if it has been apart, the builder did not follow instructions when installing the oil pump, location of your #1 on the distributor cap can be different.
I found this out the hard way.
You need to pull the 1/4" pipe timing plug on #6 cyl, and use a screw driver or wire to find tdc on compression stroke, then check your distributor and set firing order.
My timing plug hole was full of carbon, I had to use a screwdriver and hammer and tap the carbon out.
I will add that when it did start, I believe the carbon got stuck in one of the valve seats causing rough running until it finally got blown out. Seems there might be a better way, possibly using a drill and drilling it out, would turn the carbon into smaller pieces allowing it to exit the engine easier.

 

Cables not only need to be 'in good shape' but also of the heaviest gauge and have good clean connections at each end especially the ground cable.
More help is available at www.p15-d24.com for all Mopar things L6.

.

 

Just figured I’d pop in and say I like old trucks. Had a ‘60 Dodge when I was a youngster. Completely irrelevant on my part.....carry on....

 

Dodge changed from a 6 Volt positive ground electrical system to a 12 Volt negative ground electrical system sometime during 1955 or 1956
http://www.t137.com/registry/help/6v12v/6v12v.htm

I assume the 1958 is 12 volt, so the heavy cables are still a good idea, just not as critical on 12 volt as is on 6 volt.
Good grounds are always needed.

 

First off, if you want a truck that is reliable and comfortable at 65 - 70 sell that one and buy a newer truck. Don't waste your time and money trying to make it something it is not.

If it was mine I would not even think of changing anything without a good reason. First off if the carb was bad I would check for worn throttle shaft, if that was ok I would buy a carb kit and rebuild it. If you do this, don't go by the instructions in the kit. They are incomplete and full of errors. Get the factory manual, either Dodge or Carter and go by that. Old Motor Repair Manuals have good carb rebuild information too.

35PSI compression is way too low. You can try oiling it up and turning it over. If you can get it running it may come back to life. Or it may be due for a rebuild, this is not the end of the world, they are a simple engine and parts are available and not expensive.

Or an engine swap might be in order. A 318 should fit without too much drama. It will work with the stock trans and rear axle, and give you the 65 - 70 cruising speed if you don't expect too much out of it. By that I mean, I would not make a habit of driving in real meat axey traffic which I understand is common in Texas cities.

To summarize - first I would try to get it running without spending much money. If the engine is tired, I would take off the head and check for valve and cylinder wear. If not too bad I would consider an overhaul, basically rings valves and bearings. If it is bad I would think about a 318 swap.

Or, save a lot of grief and buy a better, newer truck.

 

Cities are not the problem, I live in a small Texas town, just to take the two lane road to the next town with a grocery store, speed limit is 75 mph, of course everyone drives 80.
What does a guy do? Even with a good set of rear gears, 70 mph is pretty good for a old flattie. Your still going to get ran off the road

 

The reason for 65-70mph is that the only 3places I drive regularly are school, lake Travis, and my grandmothers house, and to get to my grandmothers house there’s a bit of highway that’s 65 so people do 80. This car was my grandmothers before it was mine and it was in the family since new so I’m trying to make it driveable enough for those conditions and if I have to tow something bigger than a jet ski or have to drive to Houston then I have another vehicle I can use. Based on the way it backfires and low compression even after it sat for so long I think it’s just stuck rings and valves, this engine is also less than 30k miles as it is the second engine in this car, and it’s never been rebuilt. It’s gonna take some work to get it where it needs to be but I’m confident that it can get there


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