The manager probably wanted you to see the "machinist" because he/she would have had no idea no idea what he/she was looking at. There are a lot of "managers" out there who got the job because they can RTFS, know where the light switches are and which key fits the front door. The machinist sounds like an old boy I used to work with. He had A Chicago Pneumatic torque wrench. All you needed was your index finger to get up to 150+ ft. lbs. You might try your local community college for an engine rebuilding class. You can take advantage of their equipment and facilities.
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! I'm sorry I have to say this, but I'm with Blues4U on this mess of a "rebuild", and the fight you're most likely in for. I don't know how it is in Michigan, but here in Washington State, a Business License is required to operate, and the license has to be "prominently displayed"; that will get you the owners name, as it seems you're not getting the "name, rank, and serial number" from this shop or it's employees . But, don't YOU go in, have someone else do a little recon for you. And, most businesses also display their first "dollar" along with their license; hey, how old is that dollar bill? Can I look closer at it?; just a little rouse to get information. You may qualify for some "legal aid", due to your age and medical issues; you might want to look into that. Tearing into the poorly assembled engine was probably the biggest mistake you actually made, well maybe not the biggest mistake; we all know what that really was (walking into that shop to begin with). If you cannot get this shop to stand behind any of their work, it's also doubtful they will help you out with replacing any parts, such as a full gasket set, rings, bearing, etc. That's where I may be of some help. I have been known to help out my fellow HAMBER'S from time-to-time, donating parts, $$$, and such to help them out, and I may be able to help you out as well. If it comes to that, I'd need to know over/under sizes of bearings, rings, etc. My name, rank, and serial number are in my profile if you'd rather deal directly with me, as opposed to here in the forum. Now, I'm curious; was there ANY assembly/break-in lube on the camshaft/lifters? I don't see any lube, anywhere on your engine, except on the afore-mentioned, "grimey #@&% on the crank snout". Keep us posted. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
I said my piece in a earlier post, For me that is usually enough but in this case I do have another comment. Sadly for you, Blue has got this one just right. You don't have much of a Provable case even if you could find a lawyer willing to take the case. Just for my own information I called three lawyer's hear today and explaned this exact deal to them. Asked if they would take the case and how much. All three said pretty much the same thing, that they would be happy to look into it they all required a retainer of $5,000 for a civil case like this one. They would then draw against that retainer, $350 an hour for work in the office. If they had to go to court it would $750.00 and hour and that would include driving to the court house. In all three case's they recommend against doing a case like this that way, just too expensive they all said. They did say there was always Small Claims Court and while risky it was probable your only real chance, and that was slim. Just get a lawyer sounds easy when it just rolls off of your tongue, in real life it takes money. you are already out what ever they charged you, you could very easily make that much worse. Your only chance is to try and see what , if anything, you can get out of them. Deal with them in a manner that will get you results. Take as much as you can get and just rack it up as an experience you don't ever want to repeat. Sometimes it just cost's to learn a lesson. And for God's sake name the fools so some other guy up there were you are doesn't fall into that same trap. Good Luck to you!!
If you are planning to go to court, take lots of time stamped pictures. You might use the engine as a demonstration-type exhibit, reassemble it in front of the judge and show him how tight it was/is. Hopefully you have all the reciepts, and they are detailed. Try to find a qualified mechanic to go with you, another machinist would be nice. Hopefully you won't have to go, but it sounds doubtful.
A letter from a lawyer may help, but that's not where I'd start. This is a small claims case, no lawyers allowed in small claims court. As I posted above, the best path forward is for him to try to work with the shop and get them to agree there were some mistakes and reimburse him some of the money he's spent there. IF he can't get any traction that way, THEN a letter from a lawyer may help, but at the end of the day if they don't voluntarily work with him he'll have to take them to court, and he'll have to act as his own lawyer, and he has an uphill battle to win in court.
Deuces; More good news no oil or assembly lube on main bearings eather. I had trouble taking out six of the main bolts smelt like old oil just as if it didn't get cleaned out in the bolt holes, it was black old thin burnt oil. Pics for you to look at, look at the main bolts I don't think he cleaned out the threads or used a chaser to clean up the threads...the little bit of good oil on the rear main was from what I put on the inside of the engine so it would not rust... The more I take apart the more I find wrong. If I could afforded another place to have them check it out I would have taken it to them to do the work in the first place, but nobody in my area this place was the closes machine shop I could find. 1Nimrod
Hombre is correct, this guy needs to be outed, if for no other reason than to save a fellow HAMB member from this pain, let alone anyone else!
Just out of curiosity, what do the cylinders look LIKE? Are the ring gap's staggered? How bad is this thing, really? What are the end gaps on the rings? At least it looks like he put the rear main seal in right, at least the top half, anyway...
427 sleeper; Cylinders look good to me but I have no why to check them. I really haven't looked at the pistons. To me it looks really bad especially for me... 1Nimrod
I hate to say it, but it looks like that engine wasn't the only thing that didn't get lubed in this deal. If your county is like mine, once or twice a month they have lawyers at the library or community center giving free advice. If you wanted to go to small claims court they could tell you the proper procedures, limits and time frames, and how to best present your case. Be aware that winning and collecting are two different things.
Try chamfering the mains at the parting line on the block and the cap. One light pass with a fine file should be sufficient. That "should" get the crank to spin freely.
I’m no machinist, but somebody owes you $2000 and a box of parts. I believe the guy has never had somebody come back. With that work, I wouldn’t go back to him either. He couldn’t do it right the first time, it’s not likely that the 2nd time is going to be better. Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I too noticed the galled up main cap bolt; I would very carefully check out, and run a tap through, whatever bolt hole it came from. Would't hurt to do them all at this rate, as even the other bolt has 1/2 of it's threads boogered up also.. There does't seem to be any end to this level of crapsmanship. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
Is this "machinist" on vacation at the Betty Ford Clinic ? Got to be either lots of alcohol or drugs involved in this "Rebuild" !!
Damn rookie!.... There's no way I'd build an engine like that... This guy should be slapped upside the head...
I agree with the guys that say you will have a hard time in court, you took the motor apart and now the shop will say yo did the damage. From what you have done taking it back apart and inspecting it and all it sounds like you know a bit about how a motor should be built. How about you buy a book and rebuild it yourself? it's not hard and any tools that you may not have would be a good investment... This after you get all you can get from the shop, and I think you could get something, not much but something.
What part of the country are you in? Geeze a vocational school could have done a better job. Maybe said a better way,,,, they would have done something and got it closer to right.
Many have already said, that you have a hard case here. You should have brought the engine back to them once you saw it didn't rotate. Now that you've taken it all apart, it will be easy for them to cover their asses and say you may have done the damage. If it were me, I would demand to talk to the machinist who did your engine work. Present the obvious evidence that you have shown here. If that doesn't get you major restitution, the information and evidence of shoddy work on their part and their name and address offered to the thousands and thousands of readers on this and other car sights, should be enough to make them see the error in their ways. Your not threatening anyone. You're just showing the work that was done on your engine so others can make their own decision. You almost have an obligation to offer this information to everyone here. You need to stop protecting them. If they did this to your engine, and the other you've mentioned, they are going to do it again.
Butch, you are a true friend. I wish I lived closer, between your help and my labor, we could make this engine right. I can’t stand hack mechanics or machinists. I also don’t have time for people who abuse equipment. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I’ve got no clue how the company structure is there,,, but that guy on vacation,,,well is he an employee? If so then there’s responsibilities owed to you by the owners for what their employees do. If the guy on vacation is his own entity operating on those premises then there’s a different story that has its own set of details. I’m thinking You’re in for a battle to get to get any satisfaction for the engine. Just be careful going there as you wouldn’t want to slip and fall on the greasy oily floor
Damn, I think the first engine I ever built as a teenager looked better than that! Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could have done a better job that that! I believe whoever stated that you screwed yourself by taking it apart is right, the "shop", I call it that loosley only because it was supposed to be one, will say you caused the damages when you took it apart because you didn't know what you were doing. They will say that's why you brought it to them to start with, you didn't know how to build it. And some pantywaist judge will take their word for it, they are the "professionals", you are just the uninformed customer. Sorry, but is just the way it is nowadays. Your best bet is find some friends in your area that do their own work and get their help. Next time, get references before you trust anybody. Too many crooks and scammers around trying to find a sucker and make a quick buck anymore. Sadly, they made you their next target. Good luck, you need it.
1 Nimrod, It's over. You got screwed. We all know you got screwed. The only shop in 50 miles to you knows they screwed you. They did because ...they can. They will do again in the future. Why? because they can. You can't prove it. It's never fun to realize you just poked $2000.00 up a wild hog's ass but the money is still gone none the less. There's no recourse for you other than to salvage what you can. It's time to move on. Since you are capable of taking this engine apart and photo documenting every anomaly, I feel you could put it back together properly. You can measure bore taper with a feeler gauge and piston ring.... You can measure bearing clearance with a plasti-mash gauge.... You can polish the journals if need be... You can lap the valves if need be.... You can drive 50 plus miles to another shop and have the crank turned if need be... You can order new bearings and install them correctly... There's plenty of things you can do that's not much money. It may be old timey but it works and maybe you can salvage some of this.
I've rebuilt many in the past had my own very small shop at one time 27 year's ago but health issues (hit big cub van with my motor bike) don't let me stay out long on my legs that's the reason I paid him to put it together after all the other machine work was completed. But things will happen for the good I'm praying... 1Nimrod
I'm thinking it must of been on purpose, he knew many of my family and friends from way back when they where roundy rounders as my Father was also many years ago, many cousins uncle's also drove and used him for engine work. I'm thinking maybe bad blood with one of my relatives or friends from the past that's the only thing I can think of other wise why make such first time builder mistakes. This was the first time I ever went to this place and first time I ever met him and will be my last time... 1Nimrod
If that is the case, it speaks volumes about the kind of person that he really is! Life is too damned short to hold grudges like that. Get over it and move on! Don't take it out on someone just because of a name. If you have a problem with someone you should square it up with them, like a man! IMHO. Sorry, rant over! Sent from my SM-G892A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Get a lawyer, or make friends with the mob or bikers. As has been stated this was not a machinist ( every machinist I know is a bloody spotless perfectionist!) Best bet is you pay for the parts they installed and you get the labour back. As far as a new engine or them paying to get this done at another shop. Ain’t gonna happen. The machinist is on holidays ? Your problem is with the shop owner not his employee. Old time friend with a grudge? Could be. I have posted this before, and I’ll repeat it for you. Go over there with ( if you have them) your biggest roughest looking pals. And speak slowly, calmly, and very direct as to HOW THIS SITUATION IS GOING TO PLAY OUT, and WHAT YOU EXPECT FRIM THEM” No violence, no threats, no yelling. You just tell them what is going to transpire as you have been scammed and it needs to get corrected. This has worked for me, and my family countless times in the past , as the shop owner knows he scammed you and is now building and playing out different baseball bat, knee cap, shovel, cornfield scenarios out in his own head. Last time this happened was my uncle got scammed out of some trucking money for bringing clean fill to a guys land. Guy did not want to pay. Well about 15 of us showed up Saturday afternoon on Harley’s I front of his house, neighbours, wife and kids.all out side nice summer afternoon I just causally got out of my 69 Lincoln surrounded by “ grizzly “ bikers and handed this jabroni my uncles business card and calmly stated “ you need to contact xxxx and straighten out your invoice. He paid my uncle in cash that same day. And as for the grizzly bikers...... just my older cousins and there mid life crisis friends !!! Lol like I said guys who scam and play around always see the worst in people, because they, themselves are the worst kind of people.
My vocational school built engine in the bus runs great. I am typing this in my 67 f100. (I’m parked don’t worry) The 302 was built during my senior year of high school in 1989. This is the 3rd vehicle this engine has been installed in.
The Jalopy Journal
