Art & Inspiration Pet peeve time: Leave Sh!t Alone!!

And then there was my step-dad. I had grown up at my gramps place, he owned an IH dealership and ran several farms and a trucking company out of the home shop, so I learned correct procedures. Culture shock with step-dad, tight as a tick , poor mechanical skills and bullheaded- bad combination. So he wants to replace the king pins on his F750 10-wheeler. I already know he has no reamers etc., he says you don't need that fancy stuff, just use a brake cylinder hone. I try to tell him that won't work very well, he gets PO'd, tells me I'm a dumba$$ kid, and determinedly showed me how it was done. He hones a bit, then gets the BFH and drives the pins in. Gets in, steering wheel won't move. Much cussing, then "I have to go, you fix it". Ah schidt. Could NOT get the pins back out, even with a BiggerFH, even tried a small hydraulic jack, lifted the truck off the blocks but pin never budged. Ended up pulling the axle out and hauling it down to the machine shop to get them pressed out- and of course they looked at me like I did it. When I mentioned SD's name, they started laughing as they new him well. After all that, he was determined to bring it all back and start again with the hone and BFH because of course it was defective parts and not defective wrenching. Took a lot to get him to just let the shop install the 2nd set, because "they" were just out to screw him.

 

I’ll say that it’s a staggering ratio of the general population today. Seems to be getting worse as the years go by.

Repair facilities have a pool of low skill workers to choose from, even though they pick the best from that pool it’s equivalent to the cleanest shirt out of the dirty cloths pile. Trade schools are not in business to teach, they are in business to generate profits thru loans and pass the payer and that includes the payer rejects too. If they pay they get a certificate. Soooo guess who’s working on your stuff or who you’ll get to hire??? Complete with certificate.

Then it’s on to the DIYer who actually finds pride in the absolute shit they accomplished. Fucking Pinterest and the like,,, ohhh look at this dresser I made out of weathered pallets. Are you fucking kidding me. Guess what, they got a tool box full of things they do not know how to use and go work on their cars forcing right hand tie rods into left hand thread sleeves. The concept of a turnbuckle is beyond their capacity to understand.
Oh and since they can now buy a welder from the grocery store (across from the dog food) they do that shit too!!

 

This is all part of the everyone is equal BS that is taught in our society. Please don't ask me to sing.


Bob

 

I would chuckle but it is sad.
That said my bread n butter is stuff that the "Professional" mechanics do and don't have a clue what they are doing. If it don't run or roll it usually ends up in my driveway. The thing that really bothers me is that it is work screwed up by the "Pros", and the people have already lost their ass on it.

I get that there are a lot of people on here trying to learn and I am normally too far away to take them under my wrong so I try my best to help them understand, I think we all do. But 100% correct (@lostone ) if it is something that involves a safety component and you just don't know try and find someone who does or pay to have it done.

 

The hamb.
"Spreading the gospel only to professional builders and creditcard swinging snowbirds"

 

I worked at a shop that hired a hot shot that just graduated from Wyotech with honors. A tech he was working with asked him to hand him the DA from the bench. The kid had no idea what a DA was. He said they did everything by hand at school.

Sent from my SM-G960U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I don't know why I'm replying.
This is a pet peeve of mine as well, but in the opposite way. I get frustrated when someone asks a question and the answer is "take it to a professional", like these people popped out of the womb with knowledge. Doesn't happen as much on this board as others.
I understand the OP has personal experience with friends dying due to inexperience, and that's no joke, so I don't want to take away from that. Absolutely if you have questions, seek out experience. But don't turn away those asking for help by telling them the only way is to pay someone else to do it. Because tomorrow there's gonna be ANOTHER thread about how the next generation doesn't care. Well, guess why? Maybe they got tired of hearing they can't do it.
Personally, I have always been drawn to older generations not only for knowledge but also the stories. I wish someone would have taken me under there wing early on, but the fact is these people are literally dying out. Had a good friends grandfather help me rebush a pair of spindles. He was a mechanic his whole life, was still very active in the hobby. Unfortunately he died. I talked to some of his car club friends as they were cleaning out his shop. They really didn't want anything to do with me. Years back had found a hot rod upholstery shop full of grey beards that just hung out every Friday. I would go over in my lunch break just to hang out and listen. Until one day I showed up to a sign on the door. Heart attack. Few weeks later another of the group died as well. Getting side tracked.
Moral of my story. The majority of hambers have been there. Share your knowledge or stop complaining about how dumb everyone else is. You wernt born with it. Back "in the day" this stuff was a lot more common knowledge. Today, harder to find. Don't knock those who look for info on the internet, youtube, etc. you realize we are reading this online right now, right?
I would love the opportunity that 31 Vicky is providing to that young man. Wish I could be there. There are a dozen guys here i watch I would love to be a fly on their shop wall. If asked I'm sure most would say they made mistakes, asked for help, etc. To be clear, there are individuals who don't know what side of the screwdriver to use, but if they want help, help them learn.

 

how are people supposed to learn anything if they don't take shit apart?

the very first big repair job I did was a clutch in High School. I had no idea how a clutch worked other than you push the pedal and shift. I read an article in Hot Rod that showed the clutch alignment tool and that was the extent of my knowledge.

somehow I managed with no help or advice from anyone. good thing I didn't read this thread first.

 

Labor rates are high, that's one reason why people are into DIY.

Things are different, things change, when I started bending wrenches the main source of written information for the amateur was the Public Library. Better than nothing by a long shot, but nothing like the specific detailed info available today online, not even close. The archived discussion forums like the H.A.M.B and many others are amazing.

There are any number of tasks including brakes where if someone does their homework and can follow instruction, they can do an absolutely first class job, even better than the pros. May not set any records for elapsed time, but this is a hobby and not a business for most of us.

Attention to detail is very expensive if you're going to pay someone else professionals have it in spades but most people wouldn't want to see the invoice. Time is money, and repair shops are always under pressure to get it done and get it done fast or everything would cost a small fortune.

 

^^^^^^ I agree, people have to start somewhere and I also understand the info is out there BUT my concern is safety components, again steering,brakes.

Problem is MOST don't spend time to actually look up information, they do 1 of 2 things , post a question on a forum or watch a YouTube video, no in-depth study, no watching several videos, looking up different answers to similar questions already ask and last but not least looking for someone close who can actually put a hand on the problem.

I can tell tell you how to fit king pins, I can show you a video but I can not give you the hands on feel. You have a problem, show me a pic sure I'll help all I can but some things need hands on.

Again I understand learning, but some aren't out to learn, their out to save a buck, and throw it together so they can get back on the road.

 

From the original post:

"last summer a good friend bought a really nice rod, driving it home at 70 and the right front caliper comes off inside the front wheel because the last owner left the caliper bolts loose, snug down but not tight."

Maybe one should not drive a newly purchased specialty car at high speed without checking it over. Even if it was built by "professionals".

 

Oh yeah ,,,, those people even with professional guidance will fuck stuff up.

Two examples- this one is similar to solving a complicated trigonometry problem then messing up on what’s 2+2 !!!!
59 Harley pan head basket case brought back from the dead for my buddy. He didn’t have a bunch of money but we had a lot of parts. This thing came out so freaking nice he took best of show on a shoestring.

While the final assembly was going on my buddy put the very last part on The master link retainer and put it on backwards. I said you need to change it around because the closed end needs to go first. SIMPLE SIMPLE mistake. He said That thing was a bitch to get on, I don’t want to break it and have to get a new clip.
Another buddy from the group says he’s never heard of such a thing. The bike is finished!!! And we ain’t got time the show starts in an hour.
We take it up to the show about 1/2 mile away he gets best of show against 2-300 serious motorcycles. It was a late night after a long thrash and congratulations and celebrations so we just went home,,,,Friday night.

Saturday morning I get a call from my buddy,,, the chain flew off, fucked up the rear fender, rear wheel, super snazzy whitewall tires, and his leg. I didn’t have the heart to say I told you so but I did ask him if he learned anything about master link clips.

#2
Stopped at another friends house, he was changing u joints. Almost done but lost a few clips (internal that ride next to the yoke). I said you need those !! No I don’t - yes you do!
I’ll run you up to the parts store and lets get some. Nope the u bolts will hold it , don’t need them clips.
Took almost 2 weeks of daily commutes before he spit the driveshaft out and tore up all kinds of shit.

One more Ujoint
Guys brother want to change his you joints.
I helped with extra fingers to press the old ones out and told him to put the new ones in the freezer. He laughed and I thought it was because he new the trick. I wasn’t watching but I did hear all sorts of banging. I came to see the commotion and heard the problem. Beating the new cups in and fucking all kinds of shit up. Sweating, mashed fingers, and a destroyed ujoint.
I get him another joint, goes in the freezer. While I cleaned up the mess of gouges in the sockets.
I took the torch and warmed up the sockets then put the frozen u joint cups in without any fuss.

It’s the simple stuff man

 

Random thoughts triggered by this thread;
1. 31Vicky, I too commend you.
2. I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. (Ba-dump-bump)
3. The tie rod caper: "Well, 2 of them were labelled LH and 2 were labelled RH, so that's the sides of the car I put'em on. Had a bitch of a time, though....."
4. Ben Franklin, who said that it is difficult to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
Carry on.

 

I'll stick up for the youtube tutorials. I am quite handy though, but if I need to do a job I haven't done before I'll always see if any info exists online. I have put some stuff up on youtube myself (how to check an early ford axle ratio, for example).

But I do agree wholeheartedly a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Someone with no knowledge or "feel" for the job watching an expert making it look easy and then thinking they themselves are suddenly an expert is not going to end well.

Mart.

 

Let’s face it, even if you want to learn. There are some who can, and some who can’t.
Had many, many apprentice’s over the years that thought auto mechanics was all “ race cars and custom stuff”
When they found out most of what we do is engine lights and brake jobs on moms soccer car the lights dimmed.
Even working at jaguar and Mercedes “ luxury cars” they had zero enthusiasm.
I would usually tell these guys to go cut hair or sell shoes as mechanics is not for you.
There needs to be a willingness to learn, to do the mundain oil changes or brake jobs, the shitty rusty brake lines etc. And when you get that super charger install or lowering job or “ fancy wheels “ etc. It is different and you will take pride.
I did automotive for almost 20 years before I changed to heavy equipment and forklifts as I got really tired of the dealership mentality “ I can fix jags, or Benz or Toyota” but outside of 5 pm they drove an appliance and had zero interest in anything automotive .

First shop I worked at was an independent and stayed good friends with joe and the neufi still to this day.
Haven’t worked there in over 20 years and he never hired an apprentice after me. Asked him why a few years ago and got told “ they don’t build them like you anymore” all the kids he hired did not want to listen or follow any kind of guidance .... just work on “ cool stuff”
Left automotive and thought “ forklift and skidsteers etc. Will be child’s play “ got handed my ass in my first year working on this stuff.
Luckily I made friends with some experienced guys and I enjoy reading so figured it out quick but I’m still learning every day I’m on the job.
And that’s the big one, learning all the time.
Mechanics who stop learning or think they know it all are just as bad as the novice who thinks they are masters.
I have worked with a lot of useless techs who have been “ holding wrenches “ for years but only know one brand or a few select “ Gravy jobs”

Meh I’m rambling back to my beer

 

What's the issue? 4 new rod ends, 2 new sleeves and bill them.

 

I tell my students all the time that if they get into this trade they will be going to school for the rest of their lives.

As far as U Tube someone once commented, "Who are you going to believe, the shop manual or two 19 year olds on U Tube." Forums and U Tube are great resources but you have to read or watch with a jaundiced eye. You need to view multiple posts/posters to get a sense of who is competent and who is blowing smoke. There are times I will pull something up to learn to do something new, non car related, and within the first few minutes I am thinking "are you funnin' me".

I don't want any of my students to get hurt, but I tell them the only reason I care about their cars is that, on the road, they are aimed at me and mine.

 

When my son first started working on his car, he was afraid to do almost everything. He was so concerned about messing something up he was terrified to try anything.
We got to the point that I would tell him how he had to do something, then I had to tell him to get in there and screw it up! I told him the harder it was, or the more it cost, to fix his screw up, the better he would remember. He does a lot of stuff on his cars now.
U tube is a great source of info. I use it myself whenever I'm going to do something new. If possible, I like to watch a couple versions of the project I'm about to undertake, because some "fixes" are way out there. Watching things on U tube, when they are done well, is great info, but its not the same as getting your hands dirty and doing it yourself.

The story of the brake caliper coming off causing an accident that cost someone his life is a tragic event, but I can't help but wonder if there wasn't some level driver responsibility involved. I can't imagine there wasn't some noise or strange feeling going on the driver chose to ignore, or didn't notice before the accident unfolded.
There is a guy around here that bought a beat to death Dakota pickup. He had been driving the truck for about a month before the tire blew out and he was in a hurry looking for a tire. Come to find out, the wheel bearing went bad, and he kept driving until it broke the caliper bolts. He kept driving until the caliper came loose and started grinding on the aluminum wheel. He kept driving until the caliper finally cut through the wheel, causing the flat tire. He wanted me to bring him a tire on a steel wheel, so he could put the tire on and go to work. He wasn't concerned about the size of the tire, only that it held air. He was going to fix the brakes after he got off work! The truck started making funny noises about a week before the tire blew out. I did not take a tire and wheel to him.

No one was a mechanic before he did anything. Those first few attempts at most automotive related repairs could have resulted in a pretty bad situation, but most of us were really lucky. We may have had hurt pride and a few damaged parts to replace, but fortunately no one got hurt and we got the chance to fix our screw ups. Gene

 

This reminds me of my trade, I'm a lifelong equipment operator, I'm sure there are others on this board, just today I got called to a job to take over what another operator thought was easy but couldn't complete. See.....anybody can drive one of those........uh huh, ford a stream? Sprockets first, hill climb? Sprockets first, settling ponds? Sprockets first. Never stuck if the house still turns, dig a hole in front of you and pull yourself into it, Don't put yourself in a spot you know you'll get stuck. Spent my life learning my craft, also spent my life understanding there are just some things you can't teach, and some things the guy you're teaching will never learn.

 

My good buddy, an ATV service tech, hung a sign on the shop wall: "You can't fix stupid, but you can charge $119.00/hr for it!"

 

I have lost count of how many do it yourself repair jobs have come my way in 30 years of fixing cars? I don’t mind helping people who have got themselves in a jam , but sometimes they show up with a bad attitude. They hate repair shops that’s why they are doing it themselves to begin with. So they can take their #$&*@* up car and hit the road! That way I can free up time to fix nice peoples cars.

 

Well this topic sorta reinforces the latest 'pandemic' I've run in to. What the holy butt munch is the idea of leaving things loose? I don't mean random fender bolts or maybe a switch knob, I mean like the pitman arm nut on the steering box, tie rod ends, hub nuts, EVERYTHING!!

I didn't get the memo which is probably the same one that says anti-freeze is now called "radiator fluid" and the need to literally (I was told this) CHANGE THE AIR IN YOUR FUCKIN TIRES. How about change the oil when you put the car away for the winter, then change it again when you take it out for the season, even though, wait for it, this happens, YOU DON'T EVEN START THE BITCH ALL DAMNED WINTER!!! AND IT'S IN CLIMATE CONTROLLED STORAGE!!! Somebody please invent a time machine, I so long for the days when shit was right for no more reason than how good you feel about it. That's the world minority now. Forget all the social bullshit, pride in craftsmanship and genuine gathering of knowledge makes you society's pariah any more. And for fucks sake, whatever you do don't try to help or constructively critique anyone under the age of 30.

Am I angry? Am I officially old? Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill? No. Maybe. No. All I can do is be certain those I work on leave safe, maintain the hope that some talented and devoted help will arrive before I lose my patience and shut the place down. Seriously, I hope I never meet some of the lame pukes that worked on shit before I got to it. Please understand, it's not everything really, but enough and for long enough I've sometimes felt a need to check my sanity a bit. I'm getting tired of saying "You gotta be fuckin kidding me!" and yeah, I've said it a lot in the last 10 years or more. Oh yeah, I did get an answer once when I asked a youthful assistant why he didn't tighten something. "I didn't want to chip the paint." He was serious. It was the fuel line bulkhead fitting in a Packard chassis. I know, right? Yes, he was terminated shortly thereafter. And folks want to know why car values are all over the board? Uhh, where do I begin...

 

I can never talk to the youthful people in the shop cause they are consumed with their phone. I have to send them a text to get their attention. Then it's an hour later. Lippy

 

On a similar note, people look at my builds and say "Oh, I can do that" and you just KNOW they're just some abortion death trap. But it LOOKS (to them) just like what I designed and built......

 

After reading this thread, I just realized that it's only
going to get worse as most kids don't work with their hands
and tools anymore.

 

And then the natural consequence of that is the herd gets thinner, because they are walking or Darwin principal and crashes take their path.

 

^^^^^ That's a factor that humans have a hard time relating to. The universe is in control, we just bend the rules. At times a little too far.

 

Yep!!
The two are the same in some cock eyeded way.

 

The phones stay in their car, or they hit the road. If there is an emergency there is a phone in the shop that they can be reached at. I have NO patience for phones at work. You oughta see the beeline they make for them at lunch!

 

That is no loss, will the phone get crushed as well?

Bob