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Projects Drop 350 into 49 Plymouth Convertible- Help Info Appreciated

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by oldtimelampshop, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. oldtimelampshop
    Joined: Apr 24, 2019
    Posts: 6

    oldtimelampshop

    C440AD23-D1D1-4744-9B58-21ED1EBAE2CD.jpeg 4F0D0F0F-0744-47B9-B89B-7AADE8D6D6D6.jpeg 68FDD96F-CB56-44A2-BB61-BE11AB3749A1.jpeg Hello
    I’m looking for any guidance. Not sure if this is the correct area to post?

    i bought a 49 Ply Conv about 8 years ago and haven’t had time till now to get it on the road.
    im missing starter, flywheel torque, etc so have elected to install a 350 engine from my first car, a 72 monte that’s been fully rebuilt just sitting on the stand. And turbo auto trans. Since I’m not selling either, it makes sense today to do this.

    my goal is simple swap to Enjoy car not a restoration or full modification hot rod. Just simple and safe to drive myself and the kids around.

    I bought the offset motor mounts from Butchs Cool Stuff and the Master Cylinder that should be bolt in swap.

    my cousin is very good at car work and has done similar stuff, and going to help me with it. but never done a motor swap it in a 49 Ply.

    Anyone have experience and can give tips on doing this swap???

    1. Radiator - keep original? Add cooler? Is there an aluminum drop in? I notice on eBay one with trans hookup already. Modifications I may need to do to clear engine fan? Short water pump

    2. Engine to fit - looks like the heater duct pass sides needs removed? Battery drivers side needs relocated? Prob to trunk. The offset motor mount should allow it to clear steering. Any other things to be aware of?

    3. Rear end - should I keep original? Pros/cons? I do have a 55 chevy rear that I could put in? But to keep stock rims on car, perhaps a molar rear end? Year/from what? Who is a recommendation for driveshaft to be made custom?

    4. Brakes - keep front original or disk? I’m not racing it, just a cruiser so would it matter?

    5. Tips on the engine and transmission swap install? Anything that can help

    6. Tips on anything else!

    next will be floors and rockers in the car as the body is rust free and nice but does need some floor work

    thank you in advance!
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
    exterminator and scrap metal 48 like this.
  2. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 4,215

    48fordnut
    Member Emeritus

    The chevy eng should be shorter than the original 6 cyl eng. Best recommendation is pull the old eng and drop in the new. Then you will see what needs to be done. Get the car running and driving ,Then change the brakes as necessary as well as the r/e. If you are just going to cruise the car the current r/e may suffice.
     
  3. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

  4. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Hey! That is the ‘49 Plymouth Convertible I sold to you and delivered in Ohio!
    No mistaking this one because of the green fender and the corner of my (then) Dodge pickup in the pic on the trailer. I often wish I had not sold that car.

    Great to see it again. I often wondered what happened to it.

    I have some thoughts on answers to your questions I will post later. Short on time just now.
     

  5. oldtimelampshop
    Joined: Apr 24, 2019
    Posts: 6

    oldtimelampshop


    WOW small world!!!
    Yes. I love the car. It’s one that I’d never sell
    Other car projects have come thru the years and garage is full, but I wanted to finally get this one on the road!
    With the few missing parts, and fact that I wanted Auto trans I’m this. The adaptors are to costly, my cousin said why not put my first cars engine into it. So sounded like a good plan.
    And best of all gets it on the Road
     
  6. For a rear you may want to look at a Ford Explorer. The passenger and drivers side axles are different lengths so it is easy to shorten them by using two short axles and shortening one side of the housing. I know Ford and Plymouth bolt circles were the same in the 60s but I don't know about the 40s and 50s.

    The Explorer rears at our local LKQ is $140 with a core. It is less than $100 on 60% off day.
     
    48fordnut likes this.
  7. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 4,215

    48fordnut
    Member Emeritus

    Both 4.5 bolt pattern.
     
    36 Master deluxe likes this.
  8. jdrew
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 115

    jdrew
    Member

    Nice convert, rare car too. Personally, id try to keep it all Mopar, but that's just me.

    Butch's Cool Stuff makes engine & trans mounts for both Mopar and GM.

    Jeep Cherokee 8-1/4" rear fits perfectly, and has the same bolt pattern.
     
    48fordnut and Hnstray like this.
  9. Smokeybear
    Joined: Apr 20, 2011
    Posts: 325

    Smokeybear
    Member

    I swapped a Magnum 360 into my 48 Plymouth so most things I've come across should pertain to your swap. Here's a few answers to your questions.

    The original radiator should be ok IF it's in good condition. If not you can get an aluminum one from fleabay. I used the stock radiator from a late 90's Dakota, 1) only because I had it when I pulled the trans from the Dakota for the swap (5 speed). 2) the outlets matched the WP outlets because Dakotas came with 5.2s and 5.9s.

    I built custom engine mounts to offset the 360 to the passenger side about an inch and a half 1) to clear steering and 2) it lined up well with the rear end I chose (more on that next)

    I used an 8.8 from a mid 90's explorer. 5x4.5 bolt pattern same as mopar, 31 spline axles, 3.73 gears, and disk brakes all in one swap. And it is offset to the passenger side so driveline angles were perfect. I took the driveshafts from the Explorer and the Dakota to a local shop and they put one together one to fit my application for less than $200.

    I used the scarebird kit on my Plymouth. Bolt on using (If I remember correctly) Grenada disks and GM metric calipers, both available at most parts stores. I also relocated the upper shock mount from the upper A arm to the frame with custom mounts but lots of people use Ford F1 shock mounts for an easy fix.

    Nothing to the install, just get them lined up with the offset to the passenger side to clear the steering and exhaust manifolds, set the angle to drop 3 degrees in the back to match the 3 degrees up on the axle and welderup. I used the Dakotas transmission crossmember and modified it to bolt to the frame. If you're pulling the stock engine/trans out, you'll want to remove the rear engine crossmember to clear the new engine/trans. Nothing a sawsall and an angle grinder can't handle.

    I used the Dakota brake booster and pedal set to move the master cylinder from underneath the floor and make the install of the 5 speed easier (hydraulic throwout on the clutch). Since you're running an automatic, you could still use the stock system but if you're changing to disks in the front and or rear depending on the year 8.8 you use, using a modern MC/booster makes it simple. I didn't stray away from stock Dakota because it was already engineered to be used with disk brakes. IMG_0482.jpg IMG_0483.jpg IMG_0485.jpg IMG_0534.jpg IMG_0535.jpg
     
  10. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 6,079

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    Cool looking convert... I like your plan and you should end up with a nice cruising and rare convertible....
     
    oldtimelampshop likes this.
  11. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    You are getting some good suggestions, but offsetting both the engine and rear axle pinion to the passenger side may become an issue. As with most rag tops (of that era) I believe it has a heavy “X” member (yes “X”, not shorthand for ‘cross’) and space through the center of the X for the driveshaft is limited, so the clearance with the offset needs to be carefully measured.

    Both the Jeep Cherokee 8.25” and Explorer 8.8” can work well. However, if you are using a TH350 trans (no overdrive) you may want to be selective about the rear axle ratio. The 8.25”
    Mopar/Jeep Cherokee was utilized starting about 1991 or so. Before that, they used Dana 35.
    In any case, the 4 cyl models were 4.10, 6 cyl manual shift were 3.07 and the most common, 6 cyl w/OD automatic were 3.55. Also, the Dodge Nitro uses the 8.25” and can easily be found with 3.21 gears.

    Explorer axles are very common in 3.73, but can also be found with 3.27, 3.55 and 4.10. Explorers also used OD automatics which accounts for the low (high numeric) ratios.

    Almost any full size rear drive Mopar car (8 3/4”) from about 1965 upward will also fit the Plymouth. Even with all the bulk and body width of those bigger Mopars, rear axle widths were in the 60” range, which is right for your Plymouth. By ‘65 they also had parking brakes in the rear drums and one piece axle shafts.

    Ford 8” rear axles are also a good option if you happen across one. They are very common with 2.79 and 3.00 ratios and have the advantage of ‘drop out’ center sections (differential carrier) so are easier to work on and change ratios if desired.

    In my opinion, the 2.79 thru 3.27 range would be the most appropriate for a street cruiser.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
    RDR, 40FORDPU, rockable and 1 other person like this.
  12. oldtimelampshop
    Joined: Apr 24, 2019
    Posts: 6

    oldtimelampshop

    Thanks
    Well I’m hoping the custom 1” offset mounts from Butchs Cool Stuff works, as should direct replacement master cylinder to bold in spot of original. He mentioned should with X frame.

    Yes TH350 is No OD. The engine/trans is from a 72 Monte Carlo.

    Good info on rear end. I’ll look into it.
     
  13. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    I'm going to be watching this, as an old employer's brother did this same swap into a '49 convertible around 30 years ago. At that time, there weren't many parts such as motor mounts available, so he had to fab those. The biggest issue was clearance around the steering column and the steering box, and I think he may have used a right side manifold facing forward then. Oh yes, he happened to be from Columbus, Ohio, my native state.
     
  14. scoop
    Joined: Jul 4, 2001
    Posts: 1,463

    scoop
    Member

    I'm following this too.
     
  15. slim39
    Joined: Feb 13, 2013
    Posts: 76

    slim39
    Member
    from pa

    I used a dodge polara rear in my 39 ply and it really worked well
     
  16. Scootin
    Joined: Mar 6, 2019
    Posts: 6

    Scootin


    Sweet another 49 Plymouth! I have a 49 that someone shoehorned a Chevy L6 230 in and a 3 speed floor shift transmission with what appears to be a Ford 8 inch.

    The radiator looks stock, and it cools okay if I’m driving. The engine was put it using the existing front motor mounts, so there are no standard saddle mounts like on the SBCs. This means that the angle of the motor is all strange, and the fan doesn’t really do a great job of pulling air through the radiator. But if I put an electric fan in there I have no doubt it’ll cool very well.

    I have it on the stock front drums and the rear drums that comes with the Ford 8. Once I adjusted everything it stops fine. No issues at all with manual 4 wheel drums, but I do want to switch to a double master cylinder because I don’t enjoy dying.

    My battery didn’t need to be moved at all. It’s still in the stock location. Although I’m not sure if with the saddle mounts if that’ll change that. The heater ducts were already removed as well, but it looks like hey still would of fit.
     
  17. oldtimelampshop
    Joined: Apr 24, 2019
    Posts: 6

    oldtimelampshop

    DD2ACC2A-CA73-4DCB-B712-4FD5328AE38D.jpeg 95538217-0B82-47BC-B91D-A4FB1025B985.jpeg Small progress. My cousin will be pulling engine soon
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  18. oldtimelampshop
    Joined: Apr 24, 2019
    Posts: 6

    oldtimelampshop

    BE4C1349-2FA5-44DF-9813-F4E6F9F6BF60.jpeg 6C135CAF-8BD9-4898-9437-CEBA9F884C31.jpeg B4521095-D31B-4D39-ACA1-4D3B4E8D29AC.jpeg E3102B76-93CC-46CE-84B9-2AC2EB82D727.jpeg E376142D-5FA8-475E-A4E4-00FEA061B82C.jpeg So thinking out loud
    What’s a nice 49 Ply engine worth?
    offenhauser Intake with dual carbs
    And Sears rebuild tag .060
    As much as I’d love to keep it, I have much to sell and make room over the next year too for garage space
     
  19. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    That engine was a Sears rebuilt a veeery long time ago. I bought the car in Long Island NY about 2003 and it had been sitting for a long time then. Hard to know what condition it is in. Maybe great, maybe not. I had forgotten that it had the dual carbs. PM me with a price for the manifold and carbs if you are willing to separate them from the engine. I have a '49 Plymouth 2 door with a rebuilt 230 Dodge that they would work well on. ;)
     
    oldtimelampshop likes this.
  20. wayfarer
    Joined: Oct 17, 2003
    Posts: 1,790

    wayfarer
    Member

    I have a ‘49 Dodge with a 440 in it. We had a hell of a time trying to get it to cool with a recorded stock radiator, so we started looking for something to replace it. A friend was building a ‘47 Chevy with a Walker radiator. After taking some measurements, we realized that the Chevy radiator would bolt in with a couple of different holes drilled in the mounting plates. I thought the info might help because it’ll be a hell of a lot easier to find a replacement Chevy radiator than one for a Plymouth.
     
    oldtimelampshop likes this.

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