It has to do with weight as much as anything, although stress caused by increased power can definitely enter into it. A 260/289/302 is a 75 lb increase over the inline six. A 351W is a 140 lb increase, or almost twice as much increase. Ford figured these pretty close, and still didn't always get it right. As an example, the '69 Mustang Mach1 came with a 351W as the 'base' motor. When Ford switched to the 40 lb heavier 351C in '70, these cars had issues with cracking around the UCA bolts in the shock tower over time, not an issue with the lighter Windsor. And that was only 40 lbs... The FE-powered Mustangs used even heavier metal in the shock towers to allow for the extra weight and power. I'm not saying you WILL have a failure; a lot depends on how you drive the car and the types of roads you travel. And it may not show up at once; metal fatigue takes time, but this is a very real possibility. Adding a shock tower brace and lower crossmember under the motor will all help with this, as will adding reinforcement around the UCA bolts. Subframe connectors would be a very good idea. Take a good look at the 'notched tower' pic you posted, then compare it to yours. You'll notice there's an additional piece sandwiched between the outer and inner bits. That's the V8 bracing, and that extra thickness is what supports the weight. Try to duplicate that...
Steve, I now see the additional brace sandwiched between the two on the shock tower. I need to check mine but I am almost positive that it does not contain the additional bracing. My intentions were to put the larger engine for the extra performance. It won't see any track time but plenty of cursing action on the street. Might be in my best interest to save the motor for another build and build a older 302. Mark
Actually, a '89 or newer 302 with the 50oz imbalance would be a better choice. These are lighter, with both the block and the crankshaft being lighter. Add in aluminum heads and intake, along with the early timing cover and aluminum water pump, and you can get the weight down to about 410 lbs, only 25 more than the six. You'll need the matching 50oz flywheel/front damper and the block will lack the cast-in pivot for the clutch equalizer, but the pivot can be addressed with an aftermarket bolt-on bracket. I'd still add some reinforcement around the UCA bolt holes, and definitely add a lower crossmember and shock tower brace. Both of the latter can be gotten as a Falcon-specific part from Delta Bay Mustang as well as some other vendors.
Steve, I appreciate the info. Definitely something worth considering. I have some parts that will swap over from the 260 like aftermarket intake manifold and carb. I need to do some research on the aluminum heads and such. After dropping some cash on the 351W I would need to cut cost down by quite a bit. -Mark
I think if you look closely, you'll find that yours has a one-piece overlay stamped out of about 14 gage metal. The V8 cars had two pieces, the inside one is about 3/16" thick. You won't have the torque boxes either, and the frame rails/rockers are the same gage as all the rest of the sheetmetal, although they did add 'layers' in some places. Many of the differences aren't obvious, but they're still there...
Yes sir, still not ready to throw in the 351w just yet. I was just wondering if the metal gauge might have been the same as the v8. What should I use to make the torque boxes out of ? Would some 4 x 4 square tubing be adeqaute enough?
The 6 cylinder cars used lighter gauge metal pretty much everywhere. When Ford beefed up the body for the V8, they increased the metal gauge in the frame rails, inner and outer rockers, shock towers, and added the torque boxes. And it wasn't a small increase either; they went from about 20 gauge on the basic structure to 12 on most of this, or three times as thick. Ford did add reinforcement in various places even on the 6 cars, but the V8 cars got additional stuff over and above what they got. So adding torque boxes to what you have will help slightly, but you're tying to inherently weaker structural parts. There's several threads here that touch on what's needed, you might look this one over for ideas on what's needed... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/my-first-test-drive.810807/
Ok thanks, looks like an original 6 cylinder frame is not exactly a great base for upgrading to larger v8's.
Ok I have a question guys and I'm hoping someone could help me out. My SBF 260 has been recently cutting off on me while driving and sometimes won't start. Just started happening last week leaving a car show. I managed to limp it home, but it would sputter and cutoff. Even backfired a couple of times. Not sure if it was through the carb or exhaust since I was in the drivers seat but I heard it. I initially thought it might be some bad gas since that is all I added that day before driving, went to the Auto parts store and bought a gas treatment and it is still acting up.. I also have noticed that it will spit out some black smoke through the exhaust pipes (unburned fuel)? Brand New Edelbrock carb, new distributor, cap, wires, coil and gas filter. Any ideas or leads on what to do next? Thanks, Mark
I've had the Edelbrock carbs flood out on me from time to time. The floats can get hung on the sides of the bowl or something. Sometime smacking it with a wooden handle works to free it up or sometimes I take the top off - looks fine - put it back - Fixed !?!? It will be fine for months and then do it again.
What pressure is your fuel pressure regulator set at? Did you pull the top cover and set the float level? Did you use the Edelbrock procedure for setting it up with a vacuum gauge? What's your idle speed? What is you initial advance, with the vacuum line disconnected and plugged? What model of Edlebrock carburetor is it? Is the choke properly hooked up?
1. No did not set the float level. Not sure how to do it. 2. No I do not have a vacuum gage and since my other Edelbrock carb 600 CFM when I installed it ran fine out the box did not use one. 3. Idles at about 800 RPM. 4. Timing if I remember corectl is at 32º total. Don't remember what it was with the vacuum line unplugged. I need to double check. 5. Edelbrock 500 CFM Manual Choke Model #1404 6. Yes.
Here's how to check/set the float level: http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/misc/tech-center/dl/carb-owners-manual.pdf If it was shipped rough it could be off. I always check them. The top gasket is coated, so it should release, and re-seal. If you did not set up the idle mixture screws and the idle speed using a vacuum gauge, I can almost guarantee that it is off. No carburetor is set properly, right out-of-the-box. Setup is in the manual, too. That is the total timing. What is the advance at idle (vacuum line disconnected and plugged)?
I will check initial and let you know.I think it was around 10º BTDC but not sure. Thanks for the info on checking the float level. I will look at the manual and see what it says regarding the idle mixture screws and the idle speed. Guess I should buy a vacuum gage. Thanks, Mark
Pulled apart my Edelbrock today. Found quite a bit of sediment in one of the bowls. Fished it out and rub it on my fingers and it was grainy and rock like? Emptied the gas out of the carb and let it air dry for a while. Once the bowl dried out, I took my finger and swiped out some of the remaining sediment, It was yellow like in color and grainy like sand. It was not really pasty but would hold together? What could it be bad gas from the bottom of a tank? Looks like Im gonna have to drain my tank and wash it out, clean the carb....
Found an this article on the web and thought it to be interesting... http://www.mre-books.com/ford/engines/cylinder_heads.html Basically 1.94's in a early Ford head.
Here is a link to a little video I made showing what it’s doing. A little background first. The car got flooded to the point where water got inside the gas tank during a hurricane here in Houston. It was safe in a garage but like many other people here we got water in our home. So after pulling the carpet and draining the tank I got it running. It ran fine, took it to a cruise night and on the way back it began to misfire and I managed to get it home. This was about two years ago. Moved on to another project got that one running and now I’m coming back to the old Falcon. I pulled the carb and it’s been sitting ever since. I took the carb apart and found sediment in it. I have some pictures somewhere, maybe in my work computer that I can post later. The gas tank had a drain plug but I know now it did not completely drain when I ended up getting it running. After removing the drain plug I let it drain completely but these tanks need to be removed to get them completely empty. That was my first mistake. I ended up putting gas, driving it the gas station & filling it up. This was the night that I was taking it to the cruise. So that’s probably how it got the sediment inside the carb. I initially thought it might have been bad gas but after thinking it out carefully I believe it was from the tank. When I replaced the tank after letting it sit for all this time I found about a half a gallon in the old tank when I yanked it out. So I bought a new tank and put it in. I ended up cleaning the fuel line out from front to back as well.Replaced the gas rubber 3/8 fuel line and new fuel filter. Also took apart the carb which was brand new at the time (it doesn’t even have 20 miles of drive time on it) anyway took it apart and cleaned it thoroughly. Bowls, jets and actuator pump. Even set the floats per Edelbrock’s instructions. It’s a 500 CFM Edelbrock manual choke before reinstalling it. Should I replace the fuel pump? Only reason I’m asking is the factory style has the sealed canister and maybe there is something in it from the gas? Regarding the fuel system that is the only item that has not been replaced. I misplaced the metering rods, pistons and springs and could not find them so after all this time I finally got around to getting some new replacements. I am using the pink springs with the Edelbrock stock metering rods size (.062 x .052). So I’m not sure what’s next? Please see the YouTube video and let me know what you guys think. If it doesn’t work I can repost it. Thanks, Mark
I manage to get it running after changing the metering rods. First time in over two years, took it to the gas station. Drove it around the neighborhood and even opened it up a bit on the feeder a few times. This was on Friday night, started it up on Easter Sunday to wash it. After washing it, it started to do the exact same thing again. Not sure where to go from here. Gonna pull the plugs to make sure none are fouled but they shouldn't be. Starting to feel like the carb just might not be able to recover from the debris. Hate to do it but I might have to buy a new one. Leaning towards a Holley this time around. The 4 barrel (390 CFM) should maybe increase my throttle response on the SBF 260....
Ok guys, I got a question and I'm not sure if it's even related to the idling issues, anyway I took off the top of the carb and doubled checked the floats and put another brand new pair of metering rods and of course it did the same thing I managed to get it to idle about 3-5 minutes but it would cut off. Pulled and cleaned the plugs, checked the gap while I was at it. They were covered in a black ash, must be from the fuel not burning off correctly. In one of my attempts to start it I had my son turning it over for me while I messed with the carb, one time the battery made a weird arcing sound and a small flame popped up on the positive terminal. Kind of like a lighter, I quickly signaled for him to kill the power which he did. I proceeded to disconnect the battery, turns out the battery was leaking from the top. This is a brand new battery that I bought about a week and a half ago. So I went to AutoZone today and they replaced it, I did notice that something was kind of wet around the battery area the first night I got it running but I thought it might of been coming from the gano filter on the top hose running from the t-stat to the radiator or even maybe somewhere else. Checked all connections and tightened the worm clamps a tad to be on the safe side. Did not see any leaks coming from anywhere, I thought maybe the water might have gotten blown that direction from the fan. The water/liquid has a slimy film to it. That's why I initially thought it might be water mixed with coolant. Anyway my question is can a bad alternator fry a battery out to the point where it will leak? I never replaced my alternator after the flood it was in and I'm just curious if this is even possible. Still have to contend with the carb issue which I've pretty much exhausted all possibilities so I'm probably gonna be buying a new carb in the weeks to come. I know they can get wet but I know it can't be good to have one sit in water with the battery connected, which is what happened when my home was flooded. I'm just wondering if it's possible? Going to replace the alternator as well just to be safe. Thanks, Mark
Well I finally scored a 289 a few weeks back. Been working on other details on both my daily and the Falcon most of the Summer.The block was seized up. I talked them down to a $100 and scored a Holley Carb 650 electric choke, engine stand, two intake manifolds and the block with .030 pistons. Took about two weeks of soaking but I got it unstuck...score. Got it all tore down and should be dropping it off soon, plans are to add a 302 crank & rods and stroke it out to 306 or maybe 308 because a small gack on the no.7 bore at the bottom so I'm not sure if it will have to go too .040 over but I'm hoping not. That piston was stuck in there pretty good and I had to tap it out from the underside and it gaked it up a bit. Plan on adding a stall to the C4 that is compatible with the engine internals and get away from the stock converter. Then move up the 8" rear gears to something above the 3.25's/posi I have in there now. Any suggestions on how far should I jump up? 3.80's or higher or a little lower for a little highway cruising? Since I'm on a budget any tips on upgrading the stock 289 heads without breaking the bank? Looking to go fast as best I can on a budget.
Motor is on the stand wrapped in plastic. You don't want to know why...lol I started with painting and touching up the dash trim which led to re-doing the speedometer cluster entirely. Which has now led to pulling the entire under dash wiring harness and sanding underneath and primered. The old harness was pretty bad so out with the old and in with the new. Need to plug weld a couple of rather large holes on the firewall, then paint under the dash. All the the seats have been removed for new interior and carpet. I have never had them re-done so it's the original material and needs to be replaced. With everything removed I have been tackling sanding the entire trunk compartment. Going to prime and paint as well. In the beginning I just wanted it back on the road and I did enjoy it for about 4 years but my taste has changed and now I want a more finished looking car. Snowball effect for sure, everyone has gone through at one time or another. I have the money saved and will drop off the block before the xmas holidays and once it's built it will sit until I'm finished with everything else on the inside and then I will move to install it. Gonna go with a stall converter too but I want to really think everything out to make an effective combo/drive train/gear ratio. I want to do my best to make it work all together and get the best performance out of it.On the fence right now about converting to a 4 speed one day but I would still need to locate all the linkage and a transmission. Thanks for asking, not too many inquiries on my thread lately. Hope all is well with you. -Mark
A little of the progress in the trunk area.Under the speaker area still needs to be sanded and prepped for paint. Primered areas should be good to go as is...
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