Hot Rods Steering column question

I’m in the process of building my model a sedan and have never set up steering before. I figured a shaft coming straight off the steering box to a u joint connecting to the column would be a good way to do it and minimize components. So I ordered a column that was long enough to go through the firewall and connect to the steering shaft shown in the pic. After I set it up I noticed that on most set ups I could find pics of the steering column didn’t go very far past the firewall. Is this for aesthetics or is there a reason beyond that? Just wondering if I’d be better off using a shorter column and a second shaft going up to it? New to this so pardon my ignorance! Thanks! Ben

 

A shorter steering column would lessen the angle of that U joint making is easier to turn.

 

The u-joints should be phased the same, the yokes both pointing in the same direction.

Sent from my Chromebook 11 Model 3180 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

The Borgeson catalog recommends up to a 35 degree angle. I think you're ok. Nugget is correct on the phasing.

 

Shorten your column, but you don't need another link in the shaft. You'd just need a longer shaft with the same U joints. As said above, it will lessen the severity of the angle on that joint right at the column. It will increase the angle of the joint at the box, but not too much.

 

As others have stated, a shorter column will help with the u-joint angles, and less column sticking out of the floor will not only look better, it will make supporting the column easier and a cleaner install.

 

While the conventional wisdom says the u-joints must be in phase, I remember that the steering shaft on a Chevy Citation back in the early eighties were not in phase. Just something to think about.

 

Quite a few of European cars, VW, Porsche, Audi are out about 30 - 35 degrees. Some of the Dodge trucks are out 90 degrees . Not sure why . Replacement parts were the same . May be to do with the combined angle both joints are working on.

 

Where is the carrier bearing?

 

You don't need a carrier bearing with just two u joints. Three or more is when you need a carrier bearing.

 

I guess, as long as it won't wobble into the frame. Looks pretty close.

 

I would like to see a picture of your steering box , steering set up.

 

Up to 35 degrees maximum operating angle, I always keep angles as shallow as possible

 

Phasing only matters on a driveshaft. It is totally irrelevant on a steering column.

Phasing is only for vibration cancellation on a 2-joint shaft, that operates under power. A steering column is NOT that.

Also, what is in the picture is totally fine. As long as there is no joint bind, tighten it up, and run it.

 

Based on the pics provided I'm curious as to how the column looks inside the car - to me the angle seems too shallow so the steering wheel might be uncomfortably low in the car. Might just be the pic tho.

Chris

 

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest about phasing of the "U" joints, but Borgeson, Flaming River and Ididit all recommend phasing and even show right and wrong pictures in their catalogs. I tend to follow instructions, you can do whatever you want.

 

I think I’m gonna measure the angle of the steering shaft and order a shorter column, also read about phasing the u joints. Didn’t really care for the way it looked anyways. I really appreciate all the feedback. I thought I’d throw in a picture of the way I have the steering set up Chris and see if it looks off. I set it up to where it felt pretty comfortable. Will have the wheel this week so that’ll help too. Thanks again everyone

 

If you added a vibration dampening u-joint at your steering box and changed the angle of your column you may be able to eliminate the intermediate u-joint altogether.

 

Nor am I.

I am an Automotive Engineer at General Motors. Steering is quite literally one of my responsibilities there.

We don't sell a single vehicle in North America with phased steering universal joints. It is not a thing.

 

Like this?

 

No, the vibration dampener at the steering box would extend the length of the shaft on the box.

 

Someone phase a 3 joint

Whatever!
How many B FR and Idt parts installed?
FR tech and engineers personally screwed up my buddy’s car. They are 17 miles from my driveway. When the car still wasn’t right they said “we don’t know” and took a bunch of his money. Sold him damn near every part they make too. Once they ran out of parts to sell him they quit and he still had a car that was unsafe.

His car came here and I fixed it. That’s how we became friends

 

While this is mostly a drive shaft example you can still see the effects even at slow RPM and how steering could be made to feel funny and not uniform by having U-joints out of phase or un-canceled angles.

 

Can perform a constant-applied-torque rotation?

Show me. I'll wait.

 

That would cut the angles on the U joints a lot

Beg to differ there having driven a rig with U joints out of phase that liked to bind at spots. We had to rework it so the joints were in phase to get it to turn lock to lock without binding.

 

If your joints bind, it's not a phasing issue.

It is an ANGLE issue.

Bind is caused by improper operational angles. You got lucky that altering position fixed it.

 

Gimpy, if the joints are out of phase, it will make the driven object have a different speed from the driving object, at specific degrees of the turn, correct? Which is not really a big deal when a guy is turning a steering wheel at 0.05 RPM?

But, why don't the OEM's just make them phased anyways? What is the benefit of an unphased steering shaft to the OEM's?

All this assuming that there is no binding anywhere.

 

There’s roughly 1.5 turns center to lock
Maybe there’s 2 1/2 turns

Yes the exact same principals apply and exist in all Ujoints but just like pissing in the ocean indeed changes the amount of water. (see what I did there ) No one can argue with either one. Sure the speed up and slow down still happens but it’s irrelevant in a steering shaft, you damn sure aren’t going to spin it fast enough or far enough to cause a discernible difference or vibration

When it comes to steering Ujoints and custom shafts there’s not a supply of 1”DD to 3/4” DD phase option is there? Well when you stick together with DD to 3/4-36 is there a phase option???
What if box and rack with flat spot spline and center of box/rack don’t line up with DD in shafts? Letting phase dictate ??

On your 5500 RPM drive shaft it matters, matters ALOT TOO. On the steering shaft it don’t matter in phase or out. On a drive shaft you don’t need to have either end based off center or ever returning to a starting place either.

Ok now ,,,, GM steering shafts and OEM intermediate shafts rattling is another issue altogether