They put in chrome moly rings, so my break-in has been 1000 miles and I haven't really pushed it during that time. Before the engine was rebuilt, I had it up there sometimes. I'm pretty sure he would not build me a new engine (under warranty) after 25 years
The reason for asking is that there are some really good hydraulic lifter cams now that would make more power up to 6000 rpm.
If you bend a push rod or brake a rocker arm that lifter will not make a dam you have other problems to worry about the lifter can't come apart with the push rod and rocker arm in place and the valves adjusted. And if it has not ran more than 1000 miles in 25 years it will live a long life. The clips were not a worry until you took off the heads so I don't see a reason to worry now, But hay just my 2 cents good luck
I like your plan. After all, my whole problem is three missing retainers on the lifters. I'm not sure if this style of lifter is still offered by GM, but I am going to check. All the aftermarket ones I see online have circlips. If I wanted to, could I just replace the three GM lifters with any old lifters from the lifter store?
If you bend a pushrod or break a rocker arm, you have a very good chance of throwing the lifter out of it's bore and into the crankcase/rods area. In which case you will not much care about a retainer clip.
I would also look over your push rods for straightness, wear as well as check over your rocker arms for any wear at push rod contact and a visual for any cracks.
Ultimately, the choice is yours my friend. I just went through and read this whole thing again to see if there was anything I missed, and there was. You say the rebuilder built up and refaced your original cam and STILL put the old lifters back in the engine! The lifters that are missing the retainers! Was this his choosing or yours? If he was worth his salt, he would never have let that fly! You basically had a brand new cam with worn out lifters installed on it! You've been extremely lucky for the last 1,000 miles, but it seems to me that you are on borrowed time with your valvetrain! The valvetrain is the respiratory system for your engine! They need it to breathe just like we need lungs to breathe! If you had a bad lung, but only the bottom part was REALLY bad, would you want the doctor to just replace the bad part of the lung, or replace the whole thing? I know this is a bit of an extreme comparison but, There's just some things that need to be replaced as a complete system, and a cam and lifters is one of them. You just can't half-ass a valvetrain and expect it to be reliable.
Excellent advice!!!! My feelings also. And after reading this thread, I am pulling my Sbc intake to install tri power and before putting it on will also install new 327 350 hydraulic cam & lifters. For peace of mind.
Maybe ge refaced the lifters at the same time. Dema Elgin who ground several cams for me, did just that. In the pre crate motor days that was a pretty standard rebuild deal.
Did he leave the retainer rings off of your lifters too? I'm thinking this poor guy got sold a bill of goods, and now he's left holding the bag!
They are to the point of plunger movement. Could you imagine how heavy they'd be as a solid hunk of iron?
I would look for three more lifters and rob the parts from them, if nothing turns up, I would start shopping for new lifters. The cam is likely still good, it was running without issues wasn't it? So what if the push rod bends, at this point you are already screwed, with or without clips. Why so worried about bending pushrods, is this common? I have a whole pile of dead Pontiac hydraulic lifters if you want to try a clip from them.
Good Morning Gentlemen, I have appreciated the lively discussion on lifters and cams and it has opened my eyes to the complexities involved. I have never replaced a cam, but after a little study it does not look that difficult. Since this car is the love of my life, in the long term, I will probably replace the cam as well as the lifters. I pulled one of the lifters out for a look and there were no wear marks on the cam face...it looked brand new. I want to pull them all, then have a discussion with the engine builder who did the work, and another local one who is very familiar with the 327/365. I'll admit to a certain level of emotion over all this. After spending 30 years on a frame-up restoration, then the past two years and 1000 break-in miles chasing an overheating problem (which I think I have now solved), I am literally hours from being finished with it, and SO ready to drive and enjoy it. I am really down to the short strokes (so to speak), but I don't want to do anything wrong, so I will slow down and not get in a hurry. Thanks for your advice and direction.
Thanks for your offer of the dead lifters. I don't think the hydraulic ones will have the same retainers as mine, so if I can't find any identical lifters, I'll just replace the whole set with current ones.
He can't control the lifter coming out of the bore (however not too likely unless he's revving the snot out of it), but he CAN keep the lifter from coming apart from ever present oil pressure by simply replacing the missing clips/retainers before putting the intake manifold back on. Just sayin, control what you CAN.
If the cam was ground and the lifters neither replaced or refaced. That would seal the deal for me. I would want new lifters.
If the lifters have a spring steel stamped clip, they are very hard to replace with used parts. I don't know where someone could find new ones either. Lots of ways a lifter could gain enough slack so the top cap could get out of there, besides with a bent pushrod. I wouldn't want this situation in my engine, as I stated earlier. Also, I don't see and reason to use lifters with EDM holes in them on a street engine with moderate spring pressure. The cam gets plenty of oil other ways.
With all the problems with cams with lack of Zink why not EDM lifters if you are running solids just a little extra insurance. Seams like every flat tappet cam I check anymore has a lobe or 2 with wear.
Well, I got ahold of the machine shop that rebuilt my engine in 1997. It's s different owner now, but one of the old machinists is still there and found it hard to believe that Mike (the old owner) would put the old lifters in on a reground cam. Also, I located the old paperwork, which is very sketchy, but it does not show that anything was done to the cam or the lifters at the time. Put those two facts together, and it looks like the old cam was good, so he reused the old lifters, and felt the missing retainers on three lifters would not pose a problem. The engine only had 43,000 miles on it, and the reason for the rebuild was a broken ring. Sorry for the confusion....my memory was faulty and I know I had some people confused and shaking their heads at the machine shop. So, armed with that information, I plan to get new lifters and install them on the old cam. I pulled all of the old lifters out and the cam faces show no wear marks at all. Hopefully the new lifters will have a more secure type of retainer. I have been using Lucas zinc additive during my cam break-in (which may not have been necessary?) and at my oil changes. Should I go through the 20 minute/2000 rpm cam break-in with the new lifters?
I would. Put a big blob of moly cam lube on each lifter, then turn it over by hand, just twice. Alternatively, put some on your fingertip and carefully spread it on the full lobe with a friend's help. Tell him you'll sign a waiver. IN MY OPINION, you'll get away with this, if all systems are GO..
Good idea using the cam lube, but might be worth the cost of a small brush to lube the cam lobes while your buddy turns her over by hand. Finger tip might block the oil pump screen.
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