Technical Roadster Door Dilemma

The winter face lift of my '28 high boy was progressing well until I got to re-mounting the body. The main reason for totally disassembling the car was because the way the body had been mounted previously there was no way to shim the body and get the doors to work right. That's fixed and the body responds well to changes in shims.
So I'm back to the point of installing and adjusting the driver's door. However the hinge area of the door is damaged from years of abuse and nothing to prevent it from opening too far. I have new hinges to install. Trouble is my body working skills are limited, I've stubbornly muddled my way though the body work phase of most of my projects but this area has me sorta stumped.
How do I get the hinge mounting points back in place? Please note that it is essentially double paneled, there is a sheet metal stiffener inside that the hinge bolts to as well as the outer panel.

 

A cold rolled flatbar of Stl, but longer would let you 'adjust' the surface back? Drill the hinge pattern, bolt it in?
(Gas Wrench may help)

 

I have a spoon made from a very short leaf spring that I would use to roll the edges of the skin and bring it out the proper amount.

 

Thanks, I figured I would have to make a tool to bolt to the hinge bracket and then figure how to apply force in two directions; one to bend the bracket back parallel to the door jamb and the other to pull the bracket outward (up - in the photos). But how to hold the door safely? and how to apply the force? I thought about using the old torch to make it easier to move the metal but I don't want to warp anything.

 

I know this kind of damage is common on old Fords, especially farm trucks and the like, how do you guys fix this? Come on you experienced body guys, got a trick or two to share?

 

Just put a piece of flat steel under the bent part of the door skin, with it resting on the part with the 2 holes on it. Push down on the steel lifting up on the bent part and tap the bend down with a body hammer. This will un bend the door skin.

 

Thanks BJR, I'll go out to the shop in the morning, make a tool and try that. You think a wide tool and do it all at once, or work back and forth with a narrower tool?

 

You are attempting to reverse (un-do) the damage. Larger tool, and big vise, if possible. Then I'd try working the door.
It is tougher, to 'clamp' the door (without harm), so this has become my trial method.

 

Pitman was right, holding the door was the first problem, every flat surface in my shop is piled high and deep. I decided to try gently clamping it to my two aluminum saw horses. That worked. Then I made a pry tool. The first attempt just bent the outer door jamb sheet metal that I was prying against so I straightened it and clamped on something more substantial. Now we're getting somewhere. Gently prying and tapping gently on the "bend line" it started to go back into shape. It looks like BJRs suggestion works well for the outer skin but next I'll have to straighten the inner hinge mount.
I've gotta go run some errands but I'll be back at it this afternoon. I'll hit it with the sanding board and finesse it some more.
Pardon the mess - two projects apart at the same time on top of my usual mess.........

 

Sorry for the interruption, I pulled something in my back and it took a little while to get back into the shop.
The outer sheet metal straightened out nicely but my attempts to straighten the inner hinge mount wasn't as fruitful. The door jambs touched before the door was fully closed. I ended up cutting the inner mount to free up some motion. I bolted on the door half of the hinges (the old ones) and using a wooden block, tapped them forward. I put the door back on and observed the gap between the jamb in the body and the door. I repeated the process until there was a gap similar to the undamaged passenger's side door. Once the door fit right I welded the inner bracket back together.
I suppose there was a more professional way to fix this door but it's done and so far the doors work wa better than before.

 

My adventure with Henry's old sheet metal isn't done yet. To verify my final door adjustment (this is mock up, it all comes apart for paint soon), I bought all new door bumpers and dovetail parts. Trouble is, all this stuff was missing from the car when I got it so I don't know where it goes or how it goes together. Google Images shows some lovely images of everything BUT Ford door jambs. Anyone have pictures of a '28-'29 roadster with all the door bumpers installed?
When I asked the counterman at the old Ford parts place how the female dovetail mechanism goes together he laughed and just said, "good luck, I don't think Henry was thinking about servicing those things when they designed them". So far I believe he was right. Two rubber biscuits and a brass clip - how the hell do you get all that crap into that little area in the door? Needless to say my first attempt failed miserably so I'm asking for some professional help. Even a good picture of a proper installation will help.
The female dovetail opening...........

The way I assume it goes together............

Maybe???............

 

Then there is these two.....


I see a couple of possibilities but which one goes where?

 

That's a pretty thick layer of bondo I can see where you're ground back from the hinges. Personally I'd be removing it and doing some panel rework to remedy the door, rather than just back filling the bondo. But that's me.

 

Good job on the hinges, can't help with the dovetail though. Good luck and keep posting.

 

I agree, they kinda redefined the term "skim coat" didn't they? Note in post #10 that the frame has the same issue. This time around is (was?) supposed to be a "scuff n shoot" so I can have it on the road for summer. I expanded the task to include replacing the little 283 Chevy with the 345" Olds I have been building and I also replaced the 4 bar front end with hairpins. The rear of the chassis needs attention but will have to wait. Most everything will bolt back together quickly. Consider this the initial build (in color, no bare metal for me) with disassembly and final build coming next winter.

 

Thanks BJR. This was a hot rod from the '70s that got updated in the '80s and then left outside in a car port for years. It's been through quite a few owners. It's mounted on a real '32 frame the old fashioned way; not pinched and with shims to fill the void where the flat Model A body meets the curved '32 chassis. I could not get the driver's door to adjust enough to close and in the process of troubleshooting I found multiple problems starting with two different dry rotted body-to-frame shims. So, I started from the bottom up and eventually got to the bent door hinges and the door damage. At this point the body is mounted properly, shimmed for best door fit and tightened.

 

Id like to see how the "dovetail rubber parts" fit in the door as well.
1. L shaped bumper goes on the bottom of the door about an inch back from the end of the door.
2. the other L shaped bumper goes on the door near the strike. there is a threaded hole recessed into the door.
The rubber mushroom bumper go on the body side in the round hole just above the strike.
The other mushroom bumper should go into the jamb on the hinge side of the body a few inches below the top hinge.

keep us all posted on the dovetail assembly and striker

 

Thanks for the bumper locations. You're sure right, there's a little threaded tab in the holes you mentioned, great. I figured out the mushroom location last night, thanks for the verification.
I sat there messin' with the dovetail parts last night. I got the clip in there by itself. No way to insert the rubbers. I got two rubber biscuits in there but I really don't see how one could possibly compress the two enough to insert the brass clip and then get it all the way in behind the sheet metal. Hmmm.
My Dad used to have a pair of 'reverse' pliers with knurled pads on the business end that spread when you squeezed the handles, I'm going to look in his tool boxes to see if they are still there.
If not, I was thinking of opening up the door jamb in the profile of the dovetail assembly so I could slip it in with minimum compression. Then make a stainless plate with the original opening to hold it all in. that way it could be easily serviced whenever it's needed. It is a hot rod after all, one more little modification won't hurt, will it?
Someone out there in Hamb-land has to have done this...... anyone????

 

Maybe these will help.

 

Oh yeah, a picture is worth...well you know. Thanks.


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There was a thread on here about Deuce dovetails a week or so ago, by @HOTRODPRIMER I believe.

 

When I asked a Model A guy about the dovetail,he told me to grind the rubber parts until I could get them in. A little at a time, trial and error.

 

I got my sets installed today. Not too bad once I figured out my method of install. My second door only took about 10 min. Don’t cut the door

 

What sequence did you use? Rubbers in first, then the clip?


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I didnt have to trim anything, it went together pretty smooth. The rounded side of the rubber goes against the metal like you would expect.
Put both rubbers in the door. Then I sprayed a touch of silicone spray between the 2 rubber pieces while holding them apart with a screwdriver. After that I used the butt end of a sharpie (ultra fine) but I’m sure anything similar diameter will work as long as it’s only about 3/4 the width of the slot in the door.
The marker squeezed the rubber tight so they were held against the door. then starting with the bent hoop end i pressed it against the ends of the rubber. It won’t slide in yet but you can start to work it into the gap between the rubber. Then I used a paint can opener since it has a short bent 90* on the end. keep pressure on the metal strip while working the rubber up (this is where the marker helps because it compressed the majority of the rubber so you only have to work the last 1/4 with the opener). Once it’s in you can spray the rubber again through the end and slide the marker out while keeping pressure to push the metal clip into the door. I used a piece of wood to push and tap. Once it’s close I used needle nose pliers to gently curl the clip end inside the door on top and bottom.

Now go have a beer.


Photos are probably out of order but you get the point.

 

The photo with my thumb you can just make out the end of the sharpie jammed into the slot.

 

Here is a blow up. You can see the sharpie in the back

 

All great advice, I really like the louvered fender well cover Jake, nicely done.

Bob

 

TAH DAH! I got 'em in! I used your sequence; rubbers in and seated first, but I used my Dad's old expanding pliers. (see pic) They spread the rubbers so I could get the clip started going in just like you showed. A couple screwdrivers (not the liquid kind), some finagling and they're in.
Did I mention my secret weapon? As sometimes happens, I struggle with some damned inanimate object until I wanna kill something, in walks my lovely wife and next thing you know it all works great. So she leaves. I start on the other door and struggle, she comes back. I said, " how in the hell did we do that?" So she shows me and we get the other one in, pronto. Advanced CRS strikes again. When I'm doing battle with some car thing even I don't want to be around me, but in she walks and things just work out. Bless her heart.
Thanks to everyone who posted, I couldn't have done it without you.....really.

Dad's old Craftsman whatchamacallits...... Some tools you don't need until you need them.


Done deal. Looks like it belongs there.

 

Keep that Craftsman tool around, some day you may need to install rings on a piston, or wrist pin retainers. . Bob