Technical Help identifing parts

If you really want lots more info add Flat Tail Pre WWII Midget to your title. There is an early Midget thread here as well. The Model T Front hubs have been modified, and made shorter. Early Midget wheels were bade by taking 1926-27 Rear brake Drums and welding them to 12 implement wheels you could buy from Sears. As drtrcrV8 stated this bolt patters set the stage for all Midget wheel up into the 1960's. I'd be looking to have matching rear drums and wheels. Is there a makers name on the rear center section? Bob

 

that is mo defiantly not a model A spindle

 

I didn’t think anybody said they were.

 

there is a sketch of model a spindles a few posts back

 

Front brake parts showing 6lug set up , page from a 1949/50 Ansen's catalog . Also pictured model t hub from wood spoke wheel and a hub from the 50's that was used on a old race car.

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Forgot one ,backside of model t hub.

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I'm trying to figure out what the rear end is. "Axle housing" diameter seems too small to contain an axle, leading me to suspect that it's actually an "open" axle? If so, there must be sealed bearing(s) between the hub carrier and the rotating axle, which would mean the spool (assumed) housing and axle are probably race car pieces, or standard components substantially modified.

I'm also curious why the front shocks have different orientation, one in a transverse plane, the other longitudinal.

I arbitrarily assume the rear bolt circle diameter is "A" thru '48 Ford. Although it is true that the "T" bolt pattern (uniquely 6 x 5") is the basis for most oval race cars (along with the "wide five"), you could change the front to match the rear using "T" hubs from a wire wheeled car (optional in at least 1927).

I noticed that the frame rails have a small vertical flange on the inner edge of the rails, which I don't think were to be found on standard light weight contemporary cars, so I'd guess the frame was built for racing applications. I've been told that the curved "corners" on the front of the the frame were a signature of Dreyer built cars (but also on some others). Wouldn't that be a "find"! If such provenance can not be established, I would be inclined to swap out any of the weird stuff for correct era, more available (and more aesthetically pleasing!) components. Hopefully the body (and frame) is readily salvageable, she's really a beauty!

 

Here's a couple of pics of (I'm almost certain) a Willys axle. Ignore the steel "blocks", which were added for attachment of hairpins. These were taken a while ago, with no intent to show the spindles clearly. I can take more pictures if it would be of any help.

By the way, I gave a friend a couple of junk "A" wire wheels and some Crosley rims. He welded the "A" centers to the Crosley outer rims to make a couple of wheels for
a midget project. There are a couple of British wheels, also most light trailer wheels, that are also 12".

 

Yes, that is a Willys axle and spindles and it looks like your front hubs are five lug so it might be from a ‘40 and up, earlier hubs were 4 lug.
Post a better photo of that rear axle, looks interesting.

 

Fordors : Those fronts are 6 lug.(rears are 5). Can we get this thread over to the "Cageless Midget Thread"? A "flat-tail" bodied car (one without a head-rest) might well have survived into the '50s if it was never wrecked seriously enough to get one added as part of the repair.(especially a "budget" car).

 

I was referring to Desmodromic’s hubs as being five lug on the axle he showed, but actually now after a second look I’m not so sure. They might be the earlier Willys four lug hubs.

 

How do I get it over to the other thread? Just start one?

 

Took front spindle apart today here's pics! Also bearings are legible as far as the part numbers! Hub has ford on one side and either 16 or 91 on the otherside?

 

ok-ok-got it!!

 

There's an "unwatch thread" button at the top if you don't like this thread, I didn't ask you to watch it! If that's a problem I'll leave, I'm here for help!

 

As expected the spindle measures like the modified Model A example in the sketch. The Willys parts may have been used for weight savings over Ford suspension parts.

 

I really appreciate the help!

 

I posted that model t hub earlier, and after seeing yours close up , I still believe it is a model t hub that they took the outer ring , that normally would be on the outside of the wood spokes, the spokes would have been sandwiched between that outer ring and the hub flange . The six bolt holes would of been the bolts holding it all together, not lug nut bolt holes..and with the wood spokes gone they just moved the outer ring to the inner hub flange , for extra thickness, and then the six bolt holes then became lug nut stud s, then the hub snout was shortened...that's what I think anyways...could be wrong..

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Original stuff...

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So does anyone know of any spindles that'll swap?

 

Why? Is it to get away from the Model T hubs? The T hubs were very popular BITD and as @drtrcrV-8 said they should be retained for a proper restoration. If you are really committed to change them Willys spindles and axles are kind of small compared to other stuff, so instead of trying to adapt something I think your best bet would be a different set of Willys spindles, hubs and drums. I think '33-'39 was four lug and '40-'42 went to five.
One more thing, somebody might want the modified Willys spindles and T hubs, I wouldn't discard anything from that car.

 

I was thinking swap to get some kind of stud in the spindle so a wheel could be mounted vs. The nuts and bolt that are on there now. I would think the flange that's on there would not accept a stud as thin as it is! Just thinking, probably wrong though!

 

Dusterdave : I hope you don't think I was "scorching" you!! I'm heavily into oval race cars of all ages, & I hoped that you were either going to restore, or pass it on to someone else who wanted to restore it. Yes, it's apparently not either a 'famous' car, or owned by a 'famous' driver, but these were the cars that made up the rest of the field in any race; without them the 'stars' wouldn't have had a race to be in! Admittedly this one will not be an easy 'restoration', but that's part of the fun : getting to ask a bunch of oldtimers to scan their memories about this one(& to hear their other stories!!) You might even get lucky & find an original owner, or one of the drivers, or even a member of the crew! Always take a recorder with you & you'll soon have a history to go with your car when you're done. Good Luck!!

 

No offense taken! I think it will look really cool when I tow it around behind my 31 model a pick up!

 

i have a couple pairs of wheels here that were sold as wagon kits from sears etc, that use the six bolts, and the center of the steel wheel is flat, no lug nut pressings, and then the t outer plate bolts on the outside. they are common, i've seen many in junk piles. the rims were i believe 16", drop center. the ones i have, the rims are junk, but the centers could be welded back on better rims if you wish. i would think a little study at the dorman site would tell what size stud would press into the t hub, and keep it all as is if you wish. the wheels i have are free, you ship, i can post a pic tomorrow if you like. other wise, measure the size of the king pin, and the height of the spindle and figure out a different route. king pins can be bought in just about any size, you just need to study the books.

 

Yes, they are early 4 lug hubs. I tried to measure the bolt circle (hard to access under the pile it's in), and I'm pretty certain it's 4". So, Crosley wheels (12") and most light trailer wheels would fit, as would 13" Sprite/Midget and small GM (Vega, Monza, etc.).

I didn't research this, but the pictures of the Willys axle look like the king pin inclination is much greater than Ford.

I did a fairly intensive search one time for 6 lug x 5" pcd wheel centers, concluded there are none (except Halibrand and the like). (Noted, another post indicates Sears sold such wheels.)