Technical 235 suddenly won’t start

Ok folks. I have a 235 in a 59 Apache. It’s an all original 12 volt setup, 1 barrel Rochester, stomp starter.

The truck has been a VERY reliable runner. Never much fiddling to get it fired up.

The car started fine last Saturday. This weekend I cannot get it to start. After great amounts of cranking it might cough for a second, but will not start. I changed nothing in the interim.

Recent carb rebuild, almost positive I can eliminate the fuel system as tank is recently cleaned, glass filter showing good fuel flow.


To being eliminating ignition components I replaced plugs and wires today. Car has an ignitor instead of points. I replaced coil today too. No change.

Need some ideas from you folks with the big brains... should I start looking at timing issues? Again, motor started fine week ago. Worried to keep cranking it due to cylinder wash down


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i would be guessing bad ignitor. trace your 12 volts till it stops that where the problem is. guessing in the dist.

 

Put the points back in and try it...

 

Ignitor I or II? The first version, the ignition switch can not be left on (engine off) for any length of time. Which coil was in when it would not start?

 

I had changed nothing and it refused to start (original coil). Replaced that first before doing anything else. I can start chasing voltage through the whole system, but thought I would check if there was anything obvious I was overlooking before I did


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The 1st place to always begin is to see if there is compression.
Then you see if there is spark out of the coil.
Then you see if there is spark at the plugs.
Then you see if the spark arrives at the correct plug when the cylinder is on compression.
Then you need good gas at the time the spark and the compression are together.
When you skip steps, everything else is just guessing. Gene

 

I had a similar problem years ago with my 235 powered 51 truck. Vacuum advance failed. My timing was off enough that it would not start. Fuel, air and spark I had. Just not at the right time!

 

this is very interesting, I never think of vacuum advance having a role in the start. I will say I have long held that vac advance unit suspect for other reasons. Maybe that's a good step...

 

Diagnose first, then fix. Do you have spark? Is it happening at the right time? On all cylinders? These are the first questions. If the answer is yes then try a shot glass of gas down the carburetor, if it fires even for a few seconds you know it's the carburetor.

If you don't know how to find the answers to these questions say so and I will go into more detail.

 

Thanks rusty. Timing should be fine. Car ran like a top and no modifications happened. Fuel delivery is good and gas is clean. I am really looking for advice related to ignition troubleshooting. I will test spark at each cylinder and go through all necessary troubleshooting there but in the meantime if anyone has any obvious gotchas related to the 235 disty thatd be great.


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I would lean towards a failed ignitor unit. Check for voltage to the + side of the coil it should be 12 with key on if so check for spark as others have said, if none pop the distributor cap off and make sure rotor actually is turning when it's cranked if so it's the distributor pick up unit given that the fuel supply is good, have you verified fuel flow from fuel pump also ?

 

might see if rotor turns with cap off. could be timing gear worn out.

 

There aren't any magic tricks. Any engine that has gas, spark, and compression will fire and run. The gas must be mixed with the right amount of air and the spark has to happen at the right time. That's it. If I was there I could tell you in 15 minutes what the trouble is, you can do it too. When the engine turns over you can tell if it has enough compression to be going along with. Take out the plugs, inspect them, see if they are soaked with oil or gas or covered in carbon. See if the gap is reasonable, sandblast and gap them if necessary. Turn the engine over and see if they give a good spark. Check that timing is somewhere close. If the ignition is ok and cylinders not washed down it should start. If the carb is not working it should at least fire if you give it a shot of gas down the carb.

 

Thanks all. I have to say, I’m at a loss. I went out tonight and after about ten seconds of cranking it fired up and runs fine. Restarted warm afterwards, will check if it restarts cold in a bit. Anyone know if this should have a bypass wire to give higher voltage (past the resistor?)


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Did you say you have an electronic ignition? You should not need a resister then?

 

Ya the igniter unit still calls for an in line resistor.


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And or pin sheared off that holds gear onto distributor shaft.

 

that also. for me it was nylon timing gear

 

^^^^^ Valve cover removal then

 

Which Ignitor unit, I or II? Info from another related thread mentions 1.5ohm coil for the I and .6 ohm for the II. No ballast resistor.

 

So, either it was one of those things or an intermittent fault. If it does it again I would guess intermittent fault. In that case I would suspect the ignition and look for loose or broken wires, don't overlook the one inside the distributor. Or the ignitor is faulty, or maybe the condenser or coil. Intermittent faults are the devil to diagnose unless the fault is happening when you test it, if it cures itself you are left scratching your head. You are lucky, you do not have real expensive ignition modules, computers, etc. so you can afford to replace parts until you hit the bad one.

 

That’s my favorite part of this truck Rusty. I have had plenty of project vehicles where every part is a hunt and peck. So far this has been off the shelf stuff for short money.


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Timing gears, especially if fiber, would be a guess. Is the drivetrain or rotor turning when you crank it? Too late for gears, I see. How about condensation in the distributor cap?

 

I would use the proper ohm coil that is specified for the ignitor and get rid of the ballast resistor it should still be bypassing it during cranking and putting 12 volts to the coil if the relay on the foot stomper starter is functioning it does this with points installed also check the distributor to engine ground and ground straps. If it happened once it will probably happen again. Also could have been some junk clogging a port in the carb that just broke up ??

 

I just don't get people who start changing parts without some simple tests. Why change a coil if you haven't checked for spark. You could have good spark and be wasting your time and money. Have you checked the carb for gas? Does the accelerator pump squirt gas? Don't know if it's fuel or electronics and you are changing parts. Slow down and learn to diagnose simple problems. If you randomly start changing parts you will never know what fixed it.

 

Stated in OP. Definitely not fuel delivery. Thanks for the input though. I think at this point I have it figured out, had to do with resistance at coil during start.


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HUH??

 

Like when resistor bypass fails? Do 59 truck bypass via the ignition switch with Ign 1 and Ign 2 terminals or is it via the starter @ R terminal on solenoid?