Hot Rods 54 Ford Customline help

The other thing I was thinking about while tossing around ideas and options, is what if you move the inner tie rod holes out a half inch when you fabricate the drop draglink? There is enough adjustment on the tie rods or even shorten the threaded stud on the tie rod ends. So if the tie rods are a little farther apart on the drag link, it would give you more room and won’t hit the side of the pan at full stroke. I know your pics show it clear one direction and almost hit on the other. I’ve done it before on circle track suspensions to clear when we had drastically set back engines.

 

Perfection....

 

Beautiful set up

 

Have you installed you starter yet? Just wondering if there are any issues there.

 

I am going to speak to the Ford in a Ford deal. No one needs to misunderstand me on this. I do not believe in hard fast rules of any kind any place or from anyone. This crap about it needs to be a Ford engine in a Ford car is lame plan and simple.

I also have absolutely nothing against Ford engines, I installed a 351 Cleveland in an old Ford pick-up I used to have. I have always leaned to ward the Mopar engines and also the Chevy's. I installed this Cleveland in this pick-up because I had thrown a rod in the 396 chevy I had in the truck. I traded for that Cleveland, knew nothing at all about it or really nothing about the series 335 Ford engines at the time. I only thought that big block chevy made that old truck fast. With that Cleveland it was truly a fire breathing monster. I say this because I want folks to understand that is not that I have a problem with Ford motors because I don't. They can be and are very fine performance motors are at least can be made into that.

To me putting a Ford motor into an older Ford is just lame if the reason you are doing is because it is the easy path. If you take this 54 Ford in this thread a Chevy can be a pain in the ass because of that damn stupid Center Link. I will be damned if I will let that center link win this one.

I like the idea of doing something different just because it is different. I also have a ton of speed equipment for a small block Chevy and I need to use it somewhere. This is as good a place as any a Ford car. Maybe not be the "EASY" way and may not even be the smart way, but it is different and for "ME" that is plenty of reason enough to do it.

 

About 4 years ago i did the same thing....ran into all the same problems.... Look up Butch's Cool Stuff online...they have a bolt in motor mount kit for putting a chevy in a 52-54 ford. It raised the motor up slightly and i just heated and bent my idler and pitman arms down about an inch....fairly easy to do with motor out... Had it aligned when it was done....never had a problem....i ran block hugger headers and down pipes from Speedway....

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Roland, I didn't realize I was being lame because I opted to use a Ford engine in the wagon, My advice wasn't intended to push any agenda to use a Ford engine only to offer another option to a problem.

I remember building my first hot rod Model A pickup back in the early 70's and I was hell bent to use a 289 Ford in the truck, I was head strong and didn't listen to my peers advice who had been building hot rods since the early 50's when they told me it wouldn't work.

I installed the 289 & C4 transmission in the bare chassis and then set the cab on, this is when reality set in, the engine was too long, the cab was too small and the rear half of the engine protruded into the cab, I learned the sbc is basically the same size as the flathead, I have built several Model A's, at least 7 Deuces and four 1940 Fords with the sbc.

When I started the '54 Wagon I didn't have any preconceived notion of how it would be powered, the engine choice was determined by circumstances when a close friend passed away and I purchased his '84 Mustang with a fresh engine & transmission rebuild.

Brenda had more to do with the engine choice than me, so I ask questions here on the Hamb and a few people had installed the 302 Ford engines but no one had is the T-5 transmission.

The engine installation was easy (lame) but the 5 speed transmission was a huge pita, but in the end I am glad we used the Ford engine & T-5. HRP

 

Danny, Man I guess I failed in trying to make a point, so let me try and explain.

I am "NOT" saying that a Ford in a Ford is lame. What I am saying is when it is repeated over and over that you "MUST" or "OUGHT" to only use the engine from the car maker in your build. That is lame in my opinion. There are no hard and fast rules to this Hot Rod thing.

And Danny no one and I mean NO one can look at that picture of your Ranch Wagon with that Ford engine in it and not be impressed. You did a hell of a nice job and in the end got what you wanted. So following that same idea why should I or any one else feel like they are committing a travesty by using a Chevy in there Ford build?

I am also not saying that is your opinion, I actually don't know what your opinion in this case is. It also is not any of my business. Everyone must decide for them self which route they want to take, just when a feller does decide and makes a choice, one way or the other, he should not have to listen to a bunch of self appointed Ford experts tell him that there is only one way to do this.

 

Ordered a kit from Butch’s

 

It was pretty straightforward....i welded my mounts in even though they were bolt in...
Cant remember what else i had to do but don't recall it being too tough....good luck man....chevy power!

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So anyways, back to the topic of the the center link hitting the pan...after looking at several options and a few ideas from the post....and not to mention a long conversation with Dave at Drop and stop..looks like the way to go is cut the pan...i am going to order another stock steel pan. Like Hombre said, use an old pan to sacrifice for the purpose of R and D, and once you have what you are looking for, go at it....I ordered the motor/transmission mount kit from Butch’s basically as a time saver and help me get the motor in the right spot without spending too much time. I am in a little time crunch so the little extra money for that kit was worth it. Dave suggested cutting the entire bottom out the pan sump off to basically be able to see what the pick-up is doing in relation to the notch being fabricated. I agree with that idea as it will make it much easier to see if the pick up is affected by the notch cut out. I’m also going to look at boxing in the entire bottom of the pan and maybe making it larger in another area to make up for the loss of oil capacity.

 

I will not be doing this oil pan mod right away, I still have to get the straight 6 engine out of the car before I can do anything...I also have a vintage golf cart that I need to finish up to clear room in my garage...so as soon as the small block Chevy golf cart is out of the way, and I have the 6 popper out, I will start the oil pan mod. I will post in some photos for the folks that asked for updates...I guess there were a couple other fools like me that are putting Chevy motors in the 54. I was think about starting another post when I get going on the build to show progress of the project and maybe get some help along the way.....I am sure I will need some pointers along the way...

 

Being new here I will tell you Roland & I are friends, I was jabbing at him and he was doing the same, there are no deep-seated animosity between us, I know very well he wasn't calling me lame.

The Ford verses Chevy debacle was started long before anyone ever heard of the hamb, but this is the Hamb and regardless of which side your alliances fall, blue oval or the bow tie every one has a opinion, they may not align with what you want to hear but on a open forum you will in· inevitably hear from both sides.

What amazes me is I haven't seen any other engine suggested yet! HRP

 

I ordered the weld in kit, I had a couple voicemails to butch's but didn't get a response yet. i will call again Monday morning and inquire about a bolt in kit. I would weld it also but maybe the bolt in might be easier to locate the engine position as the weld in kit looks pretty universal and more open to location. the only thing I didn't care for is that round donut rubber bushing. it looks kind of fragile. hopefully they will give me or I can find out what that rubber is originally from or a part number for future replacement. It is really part of my plan on this build to do a detailed "build Book". I want everything documented for easy replacement. this car will be my daily driver, so simple, easy to work on and practical is my goal on this car. this is my last build do to age and health issues so I want something to hand off to my kid, and have something cool but simple for him to enjoy when I can no longer....

 

glad y'all have no problems. seems like he was just getting a little tired of the "put a for in it" answer to my question. but my question was not how to put a ford in but how to make the Chevy work.
I guess being new on here, I am not used to the off topic responses. as far as my alliance to a manufacturer, I have none when it comes to the car, but a strong alliance to chevy small blocks because it is what I know and its what I have parts for. I have put one in every domestic brand, several imports and several scratch built cars...its all I know and I wont change my mind on this one for sure. so like I said, I have no alliance, I know others may. I have opinions and I know others do too, and I totally respect that. But, if I see a car I don't really dig, I am not going to tell the owner what he should have done. I admire the car and the builder for what they have accomplished even if it wasn't how I would do it, or what I would have done it to. so I totally understand opinions. we all have them. its just annoying to get several posts from the same person telling me to put a ford in it. it wasn't the question. I can understand some feedback as to going ford engine. but back it up with why if for some reason the Chevy motor CAN NOT work... not just " put a ford in it" and over and over yet too... its like, dude, got it, but not going to happen. a little rebuilt 307 is what I have and that is what I need to make work. plus it is what I want, and I know there was a way to make it happen. I'm not dumb, I could figure it out. its just really cool to have this type of forum to get ideas, make the problem solving process quicker and meet some cool people doing so. One of the cats I started following on here (Shane Spencer) has been documenting his entire build of a 54 customline. it really inspired me to do the same. it was cool to see his progress and it seemed like he made some friends along the way. I am not a social media type guy, not tech savvy, or even that sociable for that matter, but his posts were really cool and informative, and it seemed like if he got stuck, there was always an answer from someone that had been there before.

 

When i put mine in i put mounts together and on block and lowered onto front crossmember and welded them in....one thing i would do different is to set in place the same way and mark location...pull back out and drill a hole to access the bolt that sandwichs it all together....would make future repair easier


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cool, thanks for the info. any thoughts on the rubber mount itself? did they tell you what it is from or if a replacement is available? looks like a flathead engine mount.

 

No they didnt...but i also didnt ask....i ran mine for 3 summers almost daily and when i pulled motor they were like new

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Cool, that's good to know, I just don't want to be re-doing the darn things every year and not being able to find replacements when needed. I am getting too old for all that stuff.

 

any problems with starter or exhaust ? I am running block huggers.

 

Jeff you should be OK with Block huggers depends on which one's I guess. I am using the Ram Horns manifolds as they fit and work real well. As to the starter I am using a mini high torque starter, no problems at all with this one, but even the regular chevy starter fits fine. The center link is quite a way lower than the starter so you should have no problems which ever way you go.

 

Great, I was talking to Dave at drop and stop again today. He was looking at your posts of the oil pan and we ended up coming up with a game plan. But he and I both we kicking around a possible starter issue. So it looks like I’m going to do the pan but I plan on widening the pan forward of the cut out area to gain back the lost capacity of the notch in the back. I’m going to order a stock unpainted Pan to use for the final product and my old one will be used as you suggested as a mock up....I’ll post some photos when I start the work. Hopefully I may be able to save some dimensions and maybe a template for those who also run into this issue.

 

Jeff, sounds like a plan to me. A word of caution though. For all of this to work engine placement front to back is critical. It's not a hard thing you just need to be sure to mock up the engine and check that the center link clears the flex plate. If you think about this the center link is going to fit between the oil pan and the flexplate, the notch gives you a little more wiggle room that's a good thing. You will need to mock this up in a way to be able to check for this clearance. I fab my own motor mounts ( frame portion) so what I did was lower my mock up block into place ( and I did use a mock up block, an old junk 350 block I had laying around) I then blocked under the front of the oil pan to get the motor were I wanted. I then leveled the motor at the intake manifold and shimmed this at the tranny mount so that everything was good and steady. Once that was done I could move the engine block and mock up tranny ( had one of those too, it was a empty TH350 case--lot lighter that way) front to back to get the clearance I needed. I then welded some round bar to the front crossmember and then bolted this solid to the block surface.

Once that is done you no longer have to worry about anything moving or slipping out of place, it's rock solid. I then went 2 1/4" deep into the pan front to back. This gives you plenty of clearance for the oil pump pick up to remain in the stock location, as it is closer to the front of the sump. To gain the clearance you need you need to make the cut up the oil pan very close to the oil pump body, once you have these two reference points the hard part is done. Then its just a matter of welding the pan up, and fabbing and installing the frame portion of the motor mount.

I like your idea of adding some volume to your pan when you make these modifactions to get it back to full capacity. After mine was all done and the engine was back together and ready to go I filled my crankcase just to see how much oil capacity I had lost, much to my surprise it was right at 1/4 of a quart...

 

I would have thought more...but I’m only estimating from your pictures, so I didn’t have actual measurements. Estimated that you lost 12 cubic inches of area x .554 to convert to fluid ounces you would have lost 6.6 oz of liquid capacity. My plan is to actually fab a square box like the drag pans are constructed. Notch the back as you did and probably the corners also to allow a little extra clearance for the tie rod ends. Years ago, I used to race in some classes the had rules that you had to run a stock pan. But the rule didn’t say anything about altering. So we used to box in the stock pan and put in baffles. More volume and better oil control. It still was a stock pan as far as the rules go...but that’s why I took up hot rods....no rules, and nobody gives you crap for putting a Chevy in ford...

 

I have a 355 Chevy in my '59 Ford. I'm using an early Nova pan ('62-'67) and it worked well. They may still be available at Chevy dealers. Mine came from eBay and I had a lot of trouble with the pan itself. I had to straighten out the rails and some of the corners were ground too thin and had cracks in them. I brazed them up. I also moved the drain to the side of the sump since the factory drain was too close to the crossmember. I had to shorten up the dipstick since it interfered with my alternator set up ('65 Belair donor).

 

Others have said the Chevy 2 pan still didn’t allow the motor to sit low enough. That was one of my first ideas. Figured that would be an easy fix.

 

I mocked mine up using a bare block and my old steel heads with the oil pan. I dropped in an old distributor so I could get it away from the firewall. I know that the Chevy motor mounts are 16.5" on center. I made up a jig out of steel I had laying around and made up the chassis mounts from some 1/2" x 4" hot rolled steel I had. I used Energy Suspension motor mounts, also their transmission mount. I purposely made the chassis mount uprights a little tall, so I could machine material off them to drop it lower.

 

I really like the motor mount fixture you made, I need to try that. Even without a mock up block, as long as you would have that motor mount fixture in place, everything else is just measurements....if you don’t mind spending a little time with a tape measure and a note pad.

 

First attempt. Ended up using the pan that was on the motor. I have two more in case I need to try again. But I cut the notch as high and far back as I could go.