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Technical Steering help???

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 58belair, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 225

    58belair
    Member

  2. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 225

    58belair
    Member

  3. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 225

    58belair
    Member

    So in the last picture the steering arms are inline with center line of the rear end. How do I get that angle?


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  4. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,373

    Fordors
    Member

    Before getting rid of the disc brakes I’d like to see those front wheels, they look to have a lot of negative offset. Get some wheels with more backspace and that can be corrected. As others have mentioned do change the steering arms, but don’t fall into the cheap is good trap, you want forged steel from a reputable manufacturer.
    As far as the radius rods and clevises go I think you are OK there. It looks like the upper bolt hole of the radius rod bracket is forward (closer to the axle) of the lower hole. Is that correct? If you flip the rr’s to put the longer tube at the bottom you will have more thread exposed on the top clevis. Might be nice to have a bit more thread screwed in, but the way they are now isn’t that horrible.
    The double jam nut on the drag link ball at the steering arm is kind of OK but I’d rather see a castle nut/cotter pin. The heims on the tie rod might be OK, but it depends on the quality. I’ve had good success with stainless, Teflon lined heims. They were from an aircraft surplus house and have lasted well for me but the chance of locating more of those is slim to none. Others have given a lot of good suggestions, change to a better box, a straight drag link and more, but at this time we don’t know where your caster is set, it might be good as is.
    I had typed this before your comment about the caster- 6* is good.
    Another Edit- new, forged arms can be heated and bent to correct the Ackerman. If it is close with new arms don’t sweat it, close is good, it doesn’t have to be spot on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  5. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 9,606

    Rickybop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hey, 58belair.
    My 2 cents worth...
    All the comments concerning geometry, rubbing, etc. should be heeded. But I don't think it answers the binding question. Do what a couple guys said...disconnect the drag-link from the steering box and check again. Turn the steering wheel lock to lock. If there's resistance, it'll be much lighter, but still noticeable. Do you notice resistance mostly close to the middle or center of the steering wheel's travel? If so, I think what's happened is somebody previously tried to adjust the play out of an old worn out steering box and over-tightened it. They're always a little tighter in the middle than closer to the left and right limit of travel. You can readjust it to remove the binding, but then you'll probably increase the play just a little bit too. Adjust by loosening the lock-nut on the outside of the box and turning the screw. Counter-clockwise is looser, clockwise is tighter. Experiment a little. Tighten it, turn the wheel and see. Loosen it and turn the wheel again. Find your happy medium. If it's not good, get a new box...a later one. Guys have always liked the F1 boxes, but others will work. Do some research about it...and as suggested...learn about steering geometry too. It's not too hard. Get it right. A bad engine will make you not go, but it won't make you crash like bad steering can.
    Good luck!
     
  6. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 225

    58belair
    Member

    I have 2” spacers on the wheels because of the bolt pattern was wrong. I ordered the wrong bolt pattern on disc brakes to bolt to the wheels.


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  7. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 225

    58belair
    Member

    So the steering arms need to be bent in more to get the correct angle? Just making sure I’m understand what y’all are saying. And yes I’ll buy better steering arms. Thanks


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  8. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,373

    Fordors
    Member

    The new arms might not need to be bent, you will not know until you check the Ackerman with new arms in place. To check it you will need a plumb bob, some string and just follow the line drawing that @mgtstumpy posted. In fact you can check what you have already and that will show how far it is off now.
     
  9. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    THAT IS STEP ONE. center the steering an see where the pitman arm points. it should point straight down. If it does't you have to correct that before doing anything else.

    Normally I just figure guys are trying to sound informed but don't know anything about front end alignement when they throw out the Ackerman thing but this time he is CORRECT! The line between the center of the king pin and the center of the stud for the tie rod should cross the exact center of the rear axle if the Ackerman is right on the money. More info than you really want here but it does explain it http://what-when-how.com/automobile/the-ackermann-principle-as-applied-to-steering-automobile/

     
  10. 58belair
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 225

    58belair
    Member

    Thanks. I will get the correct drag link first because it is way to short. And yes I just looked at the angle of king pin and tie rod and it’s way off.. now I know what he meant about a 200’ wheel base.. haha. So what’s the deal with the scrub? The center of the tire should be inline with the gap between the center of the kingpin and the spindles??


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  11. Step 1 is going to be correct the scrub radius. You're dragging the tires across the pavement with the steering wheel not turning them. I'd imagine that feels like what someone would call a bind.

    Step 2 is going to be the drag link pitman arm relationship.
    Count steering wheel turns, center and mark it.
    Measure degrees of movfmt at Pitman and center pitman vertically. Now measure for drag link.
    Doing those 2 should make it at least drivable
     
  12. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,217

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    With the steering box mounted where it is , if he centers the pitman arm vertical , he's gonna need a mall parking lot to make a right hand turn .. the steering arm will hit the body. Because of the way the steering box is more or less hanging in the breeze and that extremely long pitman arm , I'd recommend that he look for another box . Look at some more setups to get an idea about bump steer . Flat plate steering arms work just fine . Please do some more research before you do any more fabrication, there are reasons things are built like they are , you need to learn them .. I'm 71 , I try to learn something every day. .......Don't ask HOW to do things , ask WHY !
     
  13. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,206

    nobby
    Member

    hello all.
    has anyone as of yet, using 37 spindles, with volaire/74 charger rotors - the 'econo' brake set up,
    fitted a vintique 16 by 6'' wide rims, SPECIFICALLY' the SMOOTHJIES STYLE with the 4'' backspace or 1'' positive 'et'
    was/is there a marked improvement over say a 15 by 5'' wheel with no or minus et
    ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    p.s. I bought 6 by 15 with 3 5/8ths bs, but now you 'can' theoretically go better,
    will they rub the bars / bones

    ohh, apologies for the thread crash
    erm - what about the spherical rod ends binding
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019

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