Art & Inspiration Aero-Engined Vintage Racers

Hier you can see very close some aero engined racing cars
Bolster Cup, 76th Members' Meeting, Goodwood Motor Circuit

 

A couple of pics of the White Triplex Land Speed Record car mentioned on Page 2. 3 Packard Liberty V12's. 500 Hp each, out of 1650 ci each.





The 2nd attempt did not end well.



More Info:
http://theoldmotor.com/?p=48819

 

The dashboard is ready for riveting

 

Looks like a Hampton Radiator?

 

Which one?

 

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Hello, Rolf!​

Excellent development of your magnificent project!
Is all that made of aluminium or steel?

The technique looks the same as for the fuselages of vintage aeroplanes and their modern replicas - quite in a style of the entire concept of your Fraser-Nash aero-monster!

Good luck with the following steps of the project and please inform us with text and photos...

Regards,
Zoran​

 

All is made of aluminium also the connection parts to the chassis.The connection parts are made on a CNC milling machine and afterwords very rough sandblastet to get a look like casting.

 

Have had this one hanging on my wall for a while looking for the right project. Unlikely to find a Hampton car to put it on but looks great on this special.

 

http://www.psychoontyres.co.uk/cohen-gn-ac-cognac-frazer-nash-special/

 

The Sazaire-Berwick wind wagon armoured car, WW1

 

Hood made from Peraluman half hard 1.5mm

 

Ken Beebe, Tigard, Or. Late 20's Menasco engine X/D from 1963.

 

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Hello, Rolf!
Great work presented with nice photos!
Regards,
Zoran

 

I know that isn’t a racer but the picture is so beautiful

 

... an inspiration for Indiana Jons?
Only, this one is quite real!

Ciao, Zoran​

 

Some pictures about the latest progress

 

Found this, going together in Texas, on another forum. Doesn´t have the reduction gearing that most of these cars seem to have though. Guess it´ll work. Not like it´s short on torque to get it off the line.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1583656&i=60

 

Also discovered some detailed photos of the reduction gearing being disassembled on a Rolls Merlin V12 powered car on Facebook, if it´s any use to anyone.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/johndoddbeast/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

Hello, James!​

Thank you for information that led me to old memories about the first (for me) automobile built with Rolly-Royce Merlin V-12 engine and six wheels! I was shocked and delighted when I saw the article about that "invention".




A little more about it, in this old film:



For some time I was thinking that it was the first and only one built in such a way, using big RR aero-engines, or their American clones, from the Second World War... Of course, in the novel "Three Comrades" by Erich-Maria Remarque there was a one-off monster with aero-engine from the Great War. Later, I found in magazines and books that appeared in my Belgrade, that there a lot of similar, really made in such a fashion: big and powerful aero-engines got cheaply as war-surplus installed in old Edwardian luxurious or sports automobiles, and even racing boats... Sometimes, they were used for racing and speed records, but mostly for fun and show-off (nice way, indeed).

Now, there could exist (re-invented, re-created or rarely re-constructed) a few dozens of such aero-monsters?
Some used veteran aero-engines, in modified classic chassis more than a century-old, or just many decades-old, or with big V-12 aero-engines, or even from American tanks installed in specially built chassis.
https://www.popularmechanics.co.za/wheels/aero-engined-cars-special-kind-of-madness/

As we could see above, and before, there is one in process of building, here in Swiss by our member Rolf. As I could see projects going well and the final product would be as original aero-monster from the early vintage era!

So, James - your information are maybe not of practical use for us (pitty and sadly), but for sure they are interesting and informative!

Ciao,
Zoran​

 

Glad you enjoyed the photos. I spent a long time loooking through those too.
Paul Jameson actually built, or rather started to build John Dodds car, but then sold it to Dodd, before he built the six wheeled thing. Pity it never got that body that´s shown in the article and only a none too pretty open body instead. Seems like he went out of his way to use a huge amount of space, while still leaving virtually no space to sit!

Also, Jay Leno has his Rolls Phantom(?) Merlin car running again, on six Weber carbs. I guess it helps if you´re pals with Gale Banks!
Sounds great too...

 

James,​

Besides that RR Phantom II aero-monster (probably), Jey Leno had two more:
1. Bentley, with a compressor (is it real?) that looks almost as regular Bentley (maybe something bigger?)


2. Aero-engine twin Turbo, based on 1924 Bentley (looks almost "normal"):


3. FIAT Botofago, special:


4. 1915 Hispano Suiza with 18.5-litre aeroplane motor:



... and, a few more monsters/giants:




https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jey+leno's+garage+giants

Of course, all shown is a little OFF-Topic, but we could enjoy watching if we couldn't have them - they are "Ivy League" for most of enthisuasts, even the rich!

Zoran

 

Have a nice Sunday http://blastoland.com/blastoland/BLASTOLAND_HOME.html

 

Thank you, Rolf,​

For nice time spent this Sunday searching through magnificent Blastoland website, old and new, but Baron Margo's too! Some decades ago, I was dreaming about such magnificent but totally crazy machines. When some years ago I found mentioned websites, I became glad that I am not the only lunatic. Unfortunately, in my case, that is just as studying pornography: just watching no taching (working).
So, what to think about the biggest piston engined aircraft engine and its positioning in some biiiiig automobile? So, here it is - Gigantic 3393 Cubic Inch 800 Horse Power V-16 Duesenberg Engine (maybe, not for aircraft only?)...





Quite interesting valve-mechanism: not quite OHC, but almost!
Then, a few other of aero-engine monsters:

A pair of big Bugatti's looks quite small compared to V-16 Duesenberg?

Ciao,
Zoran​

P.S.: Somebody could know what 3393 Cubic Inches are converted to cubic centimeters, or liters? Over 50 liters?

 

Try 56 Liters +/-

 

The relative weight vs cubic inch displacement of early
aircraft engines has never been approached since. The secret
to many designs is that blocks and head were often made from
formed and welded sheet steel. This was a method far too
expensive for mere vehicle engines. I have run into the occasional
far newer patents dealing with the topic, usually from Ford and GM,
showing it is not a totally forgotten idea. Common examples from
back in the day were the WW1 era Liberty family of 4 to 12 cylinder
engines and the post-WW2 Crosley COBRA OHC cam 4 cylinder, light
enough to remove or replace in the car without a hoist.

 

Hello, Bob!​

Interesting text, but I am not sure why most of the texst is crossed? That part looks to me quite logical and true! It is interesting how early aircraft engines were light, opposite modern people thoughts... Even early aviation pioneers always complained how they do not have light enough engines - but, truth was that their aeroplanes were often too heavy and aerodynamically inefficient. There were a few smalle engines developed from motorcycle engines as Anzani, Buchet and JAP or bigger special made as Levasseur' Antoinette. The first of his long range of similar engines were produced in 1902, long before the first successful aeroplanes. There are some facts about their size, power and weight:

"Levavasseur’s first engine was running by the end of 1902, but efforts to improve the engine were undertaken throughout 1903. The engine was a V-8 with a 5.12 in (130 mm) bore and stroke. The engine’s total displacement was 842 cu in (13.8 L), and it produced 80 hp (60 kW). Initially, the engine weighed 346 lb (157 kg), but refinements brought the weight down to 320 lb (145 kg)."​

Interesting table:


Some of the presented engines were, even more, power/weight efficient, specially adapted for aeroplanes or dirigibles (most were built for speed-boat sport and racing). Note: engines were water-cooled! There were versions up to 24 cylinders, but mostly for boats (three V-8 connected).
The most important reasons for low weight were careful designing and construction, but also low mechanical and thermodynamical stresses of the engines. Could anybody today make 15.5-litre engine weighting 100 kg?




As I know Glenn Curtiss made V-8 engines were also relatively light, especially early engines used in record-breaking motorcycles.

Ciao,
Zoran​

 

Stolen from another thread. This should count

 

"Interesting text, but I am not sure why most of the text is crossed?"
Me neither. It happened as soon as I hit post reply.

Lots of unique engine designs in the early days.

 

I was at Monterey when Jay Leno bought the Hispano Suiza. I was in the Convention Center where they were storing cars post auction when I heard this loud noise and I looked up to see Jay behind the wheel of this monster chugging into the building. As the seller was showing him the cable-operated mechanical brakes he said, "I must have been out of my fuckin' mind".

There's actually footage of that in the clip you posted; at the 6:00 minute mark you'll see a guy with glasses and a windbreaker milling about in the background. That's me.

 

Just spent some time checking all this out and was thinking..... could be a bad thing.
Anyway, one of the coolest thing about these cars is the open valve train, this is where the thinking come in.
Knowing I could never buy an old WWI airplane engine, could I modify a modern car motor to look like one? Guess it would be best to start with an engine with rocker shafts and mill all the unneeded stuff off the top of the head, make some old looking rocker arms and close off the oil that goes up to the rockers. Could you put some grease fitting on the rockers for lube? Maybe with an engine that has the sheet metal valley covers, you could mill out the areas around the push rods. May should do something to seal up the where the push rods come up out of the block. guess I'm just way off base here, just thinking....on second thought, would it be best to start with a flat V8 and make some type of overhead conversion with open rockers?