Technical dead perch

My model A is set up for a panhard rod in the front,I put a vega steering box set up for a cross steer with a buggy spring,I want to put a dead perch on it instead of a panhard rod. I was told this would make it ride, stiff any opinions.Who out there is running them

 

remember , you did ask for opinions

my opinion is dead perches suck , stay with a panhard bar

 

Ok Why do they suck?

 

Been in the chassis business for almost 40 years. Did one car (deuce highboy) with a dead perch back in 1984. Panard lets your front move more freely using the natural action of the spring. Stay with the panard.

 

Ok thanks

 

Fair question. How about a hands on description of what's so bad about them in comparison to the Panhard rod? What about them has made you two take such a firm stand?
The Wizzard

 

I'd also like to know.

 

I don't like the looks of the panhard rod.I took the mustang box off,it had bump steer along with some other issues. No panhard rod,the vega box cross steering the panhard rod is recommended, the front end is a buggy spring

 

Around here a dead perch smells the same as a dead sunfish.

 

I always thought a panhard made the front of a hiboy look a little cluttered.
Sure hope this discussion gets sorted out by the time my car finally gets finished.

 

My Dad had a dead perch on the front of his hiboy 32 tudor. He had wiggly issues (Vega cross steer) before it and none after it was installed. I don't remember that car riding poorly, and it sure handled better.

 

Thanks guys

 

I have a dead perch on my 32 sedan and its been on it for 25 years no issues. It does limit suspension travel but only by 50%...
It rides fine and comfort is marginal , now the rear spring to clear the Quickchange is stiffer

 

I've used both the dead perch and the panhard rod system and have not seen much if any difference or problems, currently have the dead perch on a Dearborn Deuce and it works well. The dead perch was pretty common on dirt modifieds back when Lincoln was president, actually in the 50-60s. In the collection is a 60s chassis that was rather successful using the Flemke front suspension with a dead perch on the right side.

 

Do they even sell dead perches anymore I had a few from the deuce factory but that was many years ago..

 

So if a common hot rod straight axle front end uses an almost flat spring, how much does that spring really grow when it moves that inch up and down as you cruise down the road? You saying it will cause a sort of bump steer? I guess I could see that if we all used springs with arch like the Earl of Spring designed them to have, but we make them low and de-arched, so not a lot of moving motion going on.

 

Actually, the dead perch only 'snubs' (cowboy expression) the spring from one end.
Jim Kirby (Super Bell proprietor) told me the reason he stopped selling them was that some Street Rodders used 2 of them on one axle! So, Kirby sold the rights (and remaining stock) to the speed shop in O-Z!I had to contact the guys in Australia to get some for my stock, as I was using them on cross-steer cars. More than 15 applications, lots of hands-on.
Hey: Used them on 4 of my own cars, esp. my '29 Hiboy (SBC, P/G, locked '50 Merc rear) I used for 'Joey Chitwood' 2-wheel showoff stints: Passenger (right side) up, dead perch on passenger (right) side. Even 'handled' good on left two. (wheels)

I never witnessed any difference in 'ride', or 'stiffness'...(the spring was intelligent enough to follow the shock wave from the hard-moored dead perch through its length to the swinging shackle on the other end!)
What would stiffen the ride after application of a dead perch is over-tightening the shackled end of the spring by an overzealous 'tech'...as would happen with conventional shackles. That, and driving over some repeated deep chuck holes, perhaps.
I think this 'discussion' should be limited to those who actually used them.

 

A dead perch makes your axle move sideways as the spring flexes. A panard will do the same to some extent, but nothing like a dead perch, because a panard bar moves through a much larger arc.

 

What do you call it when there is a metal peg on the axle (horizontal, in line with the chassis centre) and it rides in a groove on the front of the chassis so the axle can only go up and down, not sideways??

 

A band aid?

 

Yes, they are readily available.

 

Chriseakin, I don't know if that ever had a name but that was also used on dirt cars back in the day. We have the remains of one that had a roller bearing on it that fit between two pieces of angle coming down from the front crossmember. A little clearance so the roller only rolled on the side it was pushed against, can't see why it wouldn't have worked but on a street car I would imagine it would look a little "busy"although I guess it could also be installed on the back of the crossmember. The good old days of racing.

 

Many things have there place,an that place depens on a number of factors.
If we are talking about a front end that only moves up an down from the frame about 1.5in.,then the deadperch works very well{for some one that dose not wish to see a panhard bar !{must always be only on one side,never both.}.
If we're talking about a panhard bar that is short{like only 6 to 8in,an out of level=That can move axle side to side under frame also/in that case even more then a deadperch dose ! When I ask why,I get"I wanted it mostly out of site" ,,Well in that case the deadperch would of better an less ugly.
When we have more movemint,above 2in. up an down of axle to frame,then a panhard bar is best.
Nether is needed if all things are as they should be*,starting with spring shackles being 45* or less{that has a self centering force of it's own. Too many meths an not enough engineering going on,in some heads !!
Then there is,for those that don't want to keep all things in balance,round an straight with out slop in parts,a bandade;called a steering damper{like VW used an a number of others} that dose a good job holding axle from shacking away from tire rod}. It can be seen,like the other two,but dose cover up even more probs. . Bad ride can be miss read,as too what is the biggist factor making it so . Bumpsteer being yet another over looked poor design done by a rod builder..

 

SoCal have them.

Chris

 

Thank you HappyDaze

 

The measurement of ride quality in a hot rod or vintage truck has a hell of a lot more to do with what the guy talking about it is used to in his daily driver than the actual vehicle from my observations. Unless the suspension is compromised that is. Most of the complaints I hear about the ride of rigs with leaf springs on both ends comes from guys who have never ridden or driven a rig with leaf springs very much. I've had guys look at my truck in the past and say they would like to have one but "them old trucks ride too rough" Had them look at my T the same way, "that damned thing must ride rough as hell". Then they go climb in their 1/2 ton Silverado or F150 and wallow off down the road.

As far as side movement with a dead perch I'd say the guys who say it is related to the arch of the spring and axle travel hit it on the nose. Stock arch spring it will move so you can notice it, flatter spring you may not notice the side to side movement unless you are critically watching it.

 

I thought that this thread had something to do with the movie Grumpy Old Men.

 

I had a dead perch on a race car and it was fine. Don't know how I would have liked it on the street. But it did make the car better on the track. Never tried a panhard rod.

 

related, stay with me.
I had a truck with bad bump steer after installing a power steering "kit". the new box mounted in front of the axle, the old behind the axle [front-to-back side steer] the rear of the spring was fixed and the front had the shackle. I did a test by clamping a piece of wire with to the axle and taped a piece of paper to the frame behind it. I then ran a orange magic marker line along the wire. I then lowered the axle and watched the wire ["my gage needle"] move. when I reached the bottom of the travel I marked it again ,in a different color. I did the same thing by compressing the spring and marked the movement. I then did it with the steering arm to see how the arcs matched.
this same test could be done to see how much side to side movement your getting with the dead perch or a pan hard. I would bet with a pretty flat spring there would not be much side to side so the dead perch would work fine.

 

oops, full disclosure I never used one and like two springs on either side.