Hot Rods SBC/T5 Problems, any suggestions

Hello, everyone and thanks for reading my ramblings. OK have a Chevy 283, T5 (non TKO) hydro clutch and chevy bellhousing and adapter plate to mate the tranny to bellhousing.
My truck is a 61 GMC, finished up the drivetrain today and was looking to go on a maiden voyage, problem was that when I went to put it in gear it's acting like the clutch is not fully disengaging, and I cannot shift. I tried reverse also and it grinds and doesn't go into gear, but any forward gear it wont go in, it will start to stall if I try to force it.

Idk the bellhousing numbers, I will have to get under there tomorrow but I bought the adapter plate and bellhousing from a H.A.M.B member, will have to check who bc it's been a while, and he told me it was from a 90's camaro, ordered a slave cylinder for it and the bolt holes where nowhere close. ended up gutting the new one and putting the parts in the old body that was on the bell when I got it, same length pushrod on the slave as the one that was on there and ran the numbers on the old slave and could not find any part number that matched a certain car/truck to get a replacement

What I am left thinking is that worse case is I would have to run mechanical clutch setup but have never made one, would like to keep it how it is, but not sure of best option. The pedal does not go all the way to the firewall, but still have a decent pedal feel, just bled the clutch as well.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

It sounds like you already have the same idea that I do, and that is that the slave cylinder does not have enough travel to disengage the clutch. You may also be bottoming the master cylinder out. If you knew exactly what the bellhousing was from, it would be helpful.

 

This is the bellhousing

 

You have the correct bellhousing.. Slave and master should match( S10 or full size pick up).. Also make sure it is bled correctly and all the air is out.. Sometimes hard to do...

 

Thanks scrap metal, I'll try getting an S10 slave and see if it bolts up, maybe the pushrod is a little longer.

Bled it the ways I always do brakes, cracked the bleeder till fluid started coming out, then closed it, had the wife pump three times then hold, opened the bleeder, got the air out then closed. Repeated till no air. Unless theres another way I don't know thats better

 

Sometimes those slave cylinders can be a real boogeroo to get bled.

 

A T-5 doesn't need an adapter to a Chevy bell housing. (At least mine didn't)
How tall is the bell housing compared to a non-hydraulic clutch bell housing?

 

Do you know bore sizes of master and slave?

Have you verified the clutch disc isn’t bottomed out on input shaft splinesand everything on clutch is allowed to work properly?

 

Some need a spacer between trans and bell because the input is a tad too long

 

I used a non-hydraulic bell housing and everything fit just fine with a T-5 out of an '88 Camaro. All I had to do was drill out the holes to 1/2" and was good to go. Standard Z-28 clutch, pressure plate and throw-out bearing.

 

Correct thirty two, Mike needed a spacer to distance the input shaft. But the bolt pattern was different also. Idk the bore size offhand but will double check if I end up needing to. Haven’t double checked if the disc is bottomed out but will look, and also try and rebleed the slave and see if any more air comes out. Also had no brake pressure which might be a sign that I have a leak somewhere and got some air in, but the brakes worked fine for three years as a daily driver till I swapped out the 305 V6


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I’m no t-5 expert for sure ,but I have put a couple in apparently some wierd Deal with the end run of s-10s used ford bolt pattern I can’t remember the specifics but I have physically touched a couple gm t-5s with ford bolt pattern

If you have the spacer already I wouldn’t think the input would be an issue .

is there a way you can omit the slave and put some kind of breaker bar or something on the clutch arm just to make sure everything mechanical is working as it should after the slave , just so your not chasing your tail thinking it’s one thing and not another?

 

I don’t know what all the differences are ,but some 2.8 and 4cyl are quite a bit different than a 4.3 or sbc that are bolt in, I learned this lesson reading on the internet all I had to do was cut the extra long pilot bushing surface shorter , which fucked me pretty bad , I ended up having to have a clutch shop reverse the splined hub on the disc to get an extra 1/4” to make things work , if I would have used a spacer no cutting nessesary

 

If you have a S-10 T-5 you may have to cut a 1/2'' off of the input shaft collar, that the TOB rides on, as it may be pushing the pressure plat fingers and slightly engaging the clutch. Read that in the "Ultimate T-5" thread. I have an early S-10 T-5 , a 283 SBC with a mid '60 bellhousing., a 10 1/2" clutch and a spacer between the bellhousing and trans. I did it to mine.

Lots of good info in that thread.

Edit: My mistake, the input shaft collar needs to be trimmed because it may interfere with the clutch disc not the pressure plate fingers.
If you look at Scrap Metal 48's pics of how much he cut off the collar on his T-5 without using a spacer there looks to be enough to account for the spacer, usually 5/8" thick, and then some.

 

What flywheel are you using?
Has it been machined and how many times?
Might need a longer pushrod on the Soave or a flywheel spacer

 

So it looks like the S10 had a slave around the mid nineties, trying to find a year to use when ordering but guessing a 95 would work? Any difference between the slave in the two different motors offered for those years?


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How much travel do you have at the fork? Is the clutch rod in the stock hole in the pedal arm? This was the problem with the hydraulic clutch in my Ford.

 

I’ll have to measure the travel on the arm after work Bob. It seems pretty well seated on the arm itself but will double check. If I’m not mistaken I bought my hurst motor mount from you for my truck haha


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If you put a spacer/adapter between the bell and the block, you have spaced the transmission further away from the clutch, of course it will need a longer throw. Maybe look into one of those adjustable pivot balls to help space the fork forward.
Also check the size of your master cylinder Vs the slave, you may not be using all the slave stroke if you don't have enough master bore.

 

I agree with the theory of this, but not necessarily the method (notwithstanding the 'or something')! Running engine, breaker bar operating the clutch, engaging gears, what could possibly go wrong? A ratchet strap / tiedown from the clutch arm to somewhere suitable on the frame might be the 'or something' answer? Might also be worth measuring the travel of the clutch arm when actuated by the slave and comparing that with that afforded by the alternative method?

Chris

 

Agreed, I will try to manually disengage the clutch and see what happens, the adapter plate was so that I could use a ford bolt pattern t5 to a Chevy bell, the mounts didn’t line up, but I was told (famous last words) that it would work. Will have to go back to step one and make sure everything is working as it should. I’ll bleed the Slave/brakes and manually disengage the clutch and see where I’m at. Thanks for all the help so far everyone I’ll keep you posted


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I didn't use a spacer.. I cut the input shaft and cover down to match the 3 speed I replaced and also elongated the splines so the disc could slide back further... **clic pic**

 

Doesn’t need to be running, put car in gear , engage clutch manually see if you can turn drive shaft with your hand , if you can’t inspect why because clutch should disengage enough to make that happen

Spacer is between bell and trans , not between bell and motor right?

 

I’m probably misunderstanding your statement but if it’s pushing on the pressure plate fingers it would be trying to disengage the clutch.


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Is the diameter of your slave Master Cylinder correct for the slave?

 

I'm using a 3/4" Wilwood master and a Speedway 7/8" slave, seems to be a popular combination.

 

The spacer/adapter is between the bell housing and the trans case, not the bell and engine block. That would have no effect on the clutch release arm throw.

 

That is true, I missed that.
I would also make sure you have the TO bearing in the right spot when retracted, if it pulls back more than 1/8"-1/16" off the diaphragm fingers you may be wasting stroke.

 

Yes adapter plate is between the bell and trans. I’ll measure the throw later, and see if I can turn the driveshaft by hand with the clutch engaged manually when I get home. Not sure if the size of the bore, but it was the same body that was on it when I got it, just found newer internals


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Might be easier to try pushing the car with the clutch in and the trans in gear.