Last year I knocked together a 27 T for a buddy, built on A rails with a flathead V8 T5 open drive 40 rear etc.. The car was run at Pendine ( South Wales) in 2018 and did OK for its first ever run at 87 mph .. Since then the rules have changed and to run at pendine for the 2019 event cars that are capable of 100 mph are to be fitted with a roll bar, anything over 110 is to have a cage. Hes aiming for a new T shirt they give away to those who make the magic TON Ive got the car back to make and fit a full belly pan. A replacement 8ba is being built, the original motor was a cut out and clean up and was prone to blowing off a bit of steam Im struggling with ideas for a roll bar in such a small car, both aesthetically and actually securing it in situ Have any of you guys got any pics of 27 T roadsters running with roll bars.. Cant have any square corners, got to be "legal" for modern race regs.. I would like it to be easily installed and removable.
What is the sanctioning body that runs that event? And how much is the owner prepared to cut the car? If you don't want to attack the upholstery, then roll up another trunk lid [while making the belly pan] leave out 2 pieces in the upper corners for the main hoop to go through into the trunk floor. Then run 1 diagonal piece from the centre of the hoop forward to the passengers foot well [by the kick panel] FIA and SCCA rules require SAE 1020 seamless tubing 1.75" diameter [44.45mm] x 0.125" [3.05mm] wall thickness. When the corners a bent there needs to be less than 10% crush on the cross section [with less than 10% growth adjacent] so it is best to get the bends rolled. Most sanctioning bodies require the hoops to be welded to a 1/8" plate about 12 square inches
You first have to study their rules as to how it is braced. It shouldn't be hard to find a shop that bends roll bar tubing for other forms of racing within a reasonable distance. They could bend you the main hoop to your measurements. Here we have at least one outfit that builds circle track car chassis that could knock something that simple out in a few minutes. Or shops that build cages and bars for off road rigs.
Be sure to have the driver and helmet available for a fitting. You need to maintain proper clearance between the helmet and bar/cage structure. Sent from my SM-G950U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
All useful info, im not so much into the competition side of things, hence my complete ignorance of the roll bar regs.. There is a sanctioning body that has stipulated the need for the roll bars after a few high speed spins on the sand last year. Up until now there has been no need for the fitment .. I was hoping not to have to cut any of the car,but fitting anything within the confines of the body is tight and tricky, especially if there is to be a driver in there as well. I could make a replacement trunk lid, that would definitely save cutting any holes in the rear deck quarters..That would also clear the enormous gas tank located in the trunk.. Ideas are coming to me already, just needed a kick start..
the pics of the roll bar are scary. that is a very unsafe design for many reasons. just because a car has tubing doesnt mean its safe. the side bars should attach at shoulder height and not have a bend in them. there is no support in the upper portion of the main hoop. in a crash the hoop could bend forward trapping the driver. There is really no side protection without a knee bar tied into the side bars. i think the protection would be very minimal at best. sand or no sand.
Thats been argued on the VHRA meltdown forum but its a case of do it or dont race .. seems there is no getting away from it , the sanctioning body require it for 2019 if you are likely to hit the 100 mph mark. If you don't fit the required protection and you run a ton, the run is not recorded, and as far as I believe any further runs would then require a roll bar /cage ..
dont laugh at the crude example im posting here, It was just a method of checking out ideas . Because the roll bar was not wanted while the car was being used on the street, I was trying to find a solution that was strong, removable and didn't require chopping away any of the car .. This example is real rough but it kinda ticked the boxes.. However, it appears that even a refined and properly engineered example would not be acceptable as the preference is for the roll bar / cage to be of a design in line with the period style of the event and the car .. But with the integrity of modern construction.. We found a few pics of vintage indy cars that had external cage designs but the jury was silent on acceptability. Its tight in that wee cockpit .. and my buddy is a well built robust kinda fella . My opinion is go as fast as you can without the bars and if you get a "no speed" recorded for the run, it a safe bet you met the 100mph target... but leave it until the last run of the day so you can have a full days fun..
The rule book was written in blood. There is a reason those old style roll bars are no longer legal. You can look old school and be unsafe or be safe and look more modern. You cant have both. Every time you race you are rolling the dice. Eventually they turn up snake eyes. It's only a matter of time.
Was looking at variations on this theme BUT Looks like this is the only option if you want to be safe ( despite the racing on sand argument)
when you said it needed to meet current day, this is what I pictured with full padding and arm and neck restraints . A cage like this has been built to be bolt in with minimal problems. be safe Larry
will double check but seem to recall that bolt in was fine, so long as it was bolted to the chassis and not simply through the floor
So he ran a 87 mph pass last year and with the new set up he is looking to hit 100 and it sounds like he only does this about once a year or so ?. Sure you can have a accident on your first pass but I like your thought on wait and see if it will hit that 100 mph mark this year and more importantly it will give you a chance to see what others have built so you and the car owner can determine what design is acceptable by the officials , gives the most driver's room and most importantly the safest.I know some will balk at me suggesting to wait a year and lay low but I only say this because I don't really believe that a roll bar [ without a halo] does much of anything on sand anyway. Great looking car you guys built, I'm not a T guy but that's a damn good looking car.
Do you have to use D.O.M.? This is a a modern clone of an early 60's Lou Lazzaro N.A.S.C.A.R Sportsman, It has a square tube roll cage built like the original car. Note the Bruce Dostal Falcon which used square tube in the cage the car got air borne (above the flagstand) and flipped hard five times. Bruce walked away un-hurt. I would feel much safer in a car with a well built well welded square tube cage than a car with a poorly built D.O.M. cage. I have seen far too many of the latter in modern cars!
See who the tech inspector is for the track and pick his brain. Does the rule book have illustrations? I've seen some foolish people try to "sneak" a sub-standard cage past the techies when I was racing. One I saw was made from an old child's swing set...
This is a D.O.M. 1 5/8" .132 wall roll bar made for a buddy car. He wanted nostalgic look and try and be legal... they said said it didn't have protection needed. Keep it on the street till you change it. A roll bar or cage is TOTALLY useless if not done properly. SHOULD YOU NEED IT... YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT. Make it right, not make another statistic. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Didnt mean to piggyback your post Bobss396. Good point you made. Making a roll bar outa the neighbors swing set isn't as much fun as the kids on the swings make it look Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
My $.01 1/2 mindset. One you can get seriously injured or killed going less than a hundred mph. Related to unsafe roll bars, a fellow competitor of my Dad's (late 60's/70's ) built a roll cage out of exhaust tubing for the light weight. Dad told him not to . One race he got t boned....
I know it is OT and not traditional, but if you look into what goes into a pro mod, door car cage it is extensive to say the least. Extreme planing , placement, and execution of bars and controls. You could probably drive one of these cars off a cliff and survive. Its all about safety and function, thats the reason to have them. The only reason.
I built a bolt in cage for my first Track Roadster, but it changed the appearance to a Supermodified, didn't like it. It's tough to maintain the vintage look with adding safety equipment.
Coming from years of playing with "dune/sand buggies", without a roof over your head , ANY cage/bar -material-diameter-wall thickness-bolted or welded design will dig into the sand and your head now becomes the roof
I am sure all the desert racers don't agree with that comment. A roll cage is also effective in a Boat
Low bars. Slightly better than nothing, unless you're not wearing a helmet and smack your head on it. No bars.
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