Technical Changes to the rules for VIN/Serial verification in California.

California project car buyers be aware:

The new form (REG31) for VIN (aka serial) verification took effect on 10/20/2018, as did the new rules.

This is one of the amended sections:


I may drop my bond, and not bother to renew my license. According to CHP and DMV rules, they want to see a complete vehicle (their interpretation of complete), operable (their interpretation of operable).

I used to be able to to do them without supporting documents, that was between you, the owner, and the DMV. Now, I can't. You need to deal directly now, for that.

From the new verifier's handbook:


Supporting documents can be an old title, or old registration. Basically anything that proves it was once in the California system.

Now, it seems, I can only verify cars that you could drive to AAA or the DMV anyways.

Anyone who is holding a REG31 form from me, who did not use it before the rules changed may be out-of-luck. Nobody at the DMV seemed to know that this was coming, and many don't know that it did. I sure didn't.

Your mileage may vary in our success, but my suggestion is to haul ass to the DMV and try now, before everyone gets trained on how to turn you down.

 

THX-another twist to make it much harder for all of us. Just did one a while back-glad I did.

 

TL;DR: Don't buy a car, of any age, in California, without a title.

 

As it was explained to me, this was done because people were generating fake serial numbers, which, as long as they did not show up as stolen, or in-use, could then be "verified" by a private service, and then get registered by the DMV, even if the vehicle never existed, or arrived by nefarious means.

That part makes sense, from a legal point of view.

I am going to try to get in touch with CHP and DMV and get their takes on inspecting an incomplete or unassembled vehicle. After all, it has always been the best advice to paper your ride before doing any work on it.

Now, it would appear that the required state of behavior would be to build the car, ant then get the paperwork.

If anything then goes wrong in the paperwork process, you lose what you just built.

 

Thanks Gimpy. So you can still do bikes? Wonder why that exclusion (said the guy with a bunch of them),

 

Only if it is still in California records. Otherwise, it has to go to DMV or CHP.


Good thing this is not a primary source of income for me, 'cause I think than I'm done.

 

I need to prove out this path. I will publish my results.

I have one last project, not yet papered. I have an A frame, with a matching serial number block. I am not inclined to build it, if I cannot get paper on it, first.

 

Thanks for the information.

Question... I have an old out of state title that matches the factory VIN's on a frame, is there a proper way to make sure the VIN is clean prior to doing any work? Car is in pieces and no work has commenced yet... with this news Im not touching it until I've got proof the VIN is clear.

 

Not from California, just curious. In Indiana you can apply for an assembled title, using receipts for major components. Does California not have this option?
Looks like another shot in the war to end our hobby.

 

I have to think that this may be the first step in the state getting rid of older cars in preparation for more drastic steps in the future.

 

Yes, we have that program, too.

 

It is a vehicle theft thing. No conspiracy theories required.

It takes this state 7+ years to start fixing a known-deficient bridge.

Long-term sinister planning is not in the cards.

 

Is that title in your name? If not, is it endorsed to you?

 

No, the title is from the 60's, and wasn't in the sellers name either. The only thing with the papers is a bill of sale.

 

Gimpy; Thanks for this, & past info n comments. Will be sorry to not have your expertise anymore if/when you are done.

Amusingly ( ;( ) enough, CA n every other State + D.C., decided years(decades?) ago to eliminate from their recording system(s) any/every thing/portion of past history(something like over ~ 7 years or so) of "titles". Which they require as "proof".

So you would, in theory, need to bond the car project(parts/etc - which so far doesn't = a car, according to CA) prior to building a non-titled Pile of Parts? The bond would have to satisfy either you, or the claimant, to at least the value of said parts, + labor/skill(quality needing to be verifiable) put into said project, & also the added value to the project-now=car-according-to-CA. This could be interesting getting this kind of bond/insurance(I'm thinking private version here). & might be the best way to accomplish things, although I'm seeing a whole lot of potential (hidden) land mines in this deal.

I'm also guessing that CA's perpetual-lack-of-"money" problem, is tied up in the un-ability to hypotheticate these "titles" as no-one will "understand" (stand under/behind) them. As finally someone(s) in the deep background is starting to require proper trails - in their world- as things are coming to a head. Or their system is unraveling even though their grip is tightening. (Whoo-Hooo!) This part is, I'm sure, OT(Although this Legal-shit has been in effect long prior to the focus of this sites' subject matter), but since the background of how things actually operate in commerce isn't widely known, & we are "forced" to comply with as long as we're in the game, it might be useful to start learning how the "game" is played. This is ALL Legal related-shit, to be sure, but it still affects how we do/do-not things. Notice: Just because I know of some things, doesn't mean I have all/enough answers to have arrived at my goal/destination. Yet. At least being aware is a start.

The theft issue comment makes sense, but as usual, a lot of the method(s)-to-the-end-goal doesn't.

Btw; what is F.U.D? Fkd Up Disillusionment ? .

Marcus...

 

I will let you know what I find, after I contact the DMV and CHP.

 

Perfect, thanks. Good to know for purchases that are costly.
Whatever the changes, we just have to make it work... Im just happy to know about it now. Luckily the frame and title in question didnt cost much.

 

Don't bash California. Kindly keep politics off of this board (board rules) and off of my thread (my rules).

We have a massive budget surplus. Money is not an issue here. Car theft is.

Insurance companies pushed for this, since they are on the hook when cars go missing, so you can blame good old Capitalism (not a political system, but an economic one, capable of buying a political one).

A title bond here, for up to $5000 in value, is $100. That's not a huge hurdle. At $5001 and up, it is $100 plus a proportion of value. This is all based on sales price, nothing else. Still not a huge hurdle.

F.U.D. is Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Not unlike what many are speculating here with conspiracy theories.

 

My advice to CA rodders, for now:

Call the DMV and have them see if there are any active records, or theft reports, on your VIN/serial.
Call your local PD (non-emergency number), and ask them if there are any theft reports on your VIN/serial.
Fill out a statement-of-facts describing how you came by the vehicle, and what steps you too to attempt to find paperwork (including the above).
Get a title bond. Here's a good write-up: https://blog.suretysolutions.com/suretynews/how-to-get-a-california-bonded-title
Cobble together a rolling chassis, and get to the DMV, ASAP. Remember, they are just there to check numbers. Don't point out or mention any missing parts, like fenders. If they mention it, just tell them that they are hard to find, and that you are still searching for a good, restorable set, and that you just want to get all of your paperwork in order, as soon as possible.

My fee is more than it would cost you to rent a truck and a trailer for the day, if you don't have one.

 

don't look good at the moment

 

So this is not affecting what can and cant be registered, just what can be verified by a 3rd party? I'm guessing that one could still go through the lien sale process to obtain a title. Still has to be verified.

 

What would two guys do in California if one found a original 1932 Ford frame, and the other found a 1932 Ford body, paid the owner and got receipts. What rings will they have to jump through to build and license the two projects? Would they be treated differently than two other guys that buy a repo frame and a steel Brookville body? Bob

 

I'de see if you can get paper! I know first hand about not having a running /driving vehicle to bring to DMV/CHP. If you don't have those, your S.O.L . People want slow less ness= project=time......
A titled frame/combo would sure be a seller if required........
get crackin' before things change. Just my .02C......
It would be a sad day if you couldn't continue to be a VVF, and the Man has his way.....
I hope not!

 

That number 2 in the rules looks like it could be a killer---revived salvage or revived junk vehicles. Sounds as though it would be up to whoever is doing the looking at the DOT as to a vehicle put together from junked parts would pass or not, independents like Gimpy couldn't look at them anymore. Am I seeing that right?

 

^^^^ I'm seeing it that way, but..... been wrong a lot of times. DMV/CHP want running, driving, all the bell's and whistles ON and functioning before their OK......
Then there's the vet's/newb's= It's a crap shoot...... Those who know- or kinda, then those who are freshies, and don't know their head from their ass.......
thankfully, I've never had to run that gauntlet. I feel sorry for the guys that do.....

 

Salvage/junk status is a title brand in CA. It does not mean that it came from behind a barn.

It means that it was processed out of the system by a salvage yard or a dismantler, or previously declared a total loss.

Either one means that it has a title, but needs a verification anyway. That, and a brake and light inspection (at an independent garage). Neither of those two title brands is a real issue, just more paperwork, and of course, a DMV or CHP inspection.

Then again, that was not a rule change. Independent verifiers were never able to verify those.

 

Gimpy;
Sorry I clogged your thread. Admonishment accepted n noted. I'd delete post, but since it's quoted...
My apologies.

I'll just wait to see what info shakes out. Background info is always appreciated.
Marcus...

 

[QUOTE="gimpyshotrods, post:

I am going to try to get in touch with CHP and DMV and get their takes on inspecting an incomplete or unassembled vehicle. After all, it has always been the best advice to paper your ride before doing any work on it.
Now, it would appear that the required state of behavior would be to build the car, ant then get the paperwork.
If anything then goes wrong in the paperwork process, you lose what you just built.[/QUOTE]

Please follow up with us on this one. How Incomplete/unassembled vehicles get looked at will be HUGE for us Hot Rod builders. Traditionally, we've bought a buildable frame with clean numbers, Get it inspected/titled, then start building a chassis and car out of it.

Fact; I have a perfectly good 34 Ford frame with clean numbers that is destined to some day be built into my second 34. As I read this, I'm thinking to get it titled, I'll have to get it to rolling chassis stage, then "borrow" my Coupe body off my current 34, to make chassis #2 a "complete car" in order to get it titled?

I can see why the State is doing this because of car theft rings, however, it seems asinine for the casual Hot Rodder hobbyist. It's like a building inspector telling you he can't sign off the concrete foundation stage until you've built the rest of the house on it.

 

I'm thinking the "reviving a salvage vehicle" is probably at the heart of the issue and has nothing to do with old hot rods built from parts that you can document.
The theft / back ally rebuild rings go at it from two angles. Here they were stealing late model trucks off the lot or street, carefully stripping all of the removable parts off leaving a rolling chassis and stripped cab that they dumped in a highly visible spot where the law was sure to be called and the rig would be quickly impounded. Then they bought the rig through the wrecked vehicle auction and took it back and put the same parts back on it. I'm not sure where they had them inspected and sold them but would think it was out of state in a state where the inspection process was a bit lax. The inspectors here take your car in a room with a hoist, close the door and put the car up on the hoist to go over it and can tell you things you didn't know about it even though you had it half apart before getting it inspected.

 

Well, as targets, or collateral damage, either way, this is a pain-in-the-ass.