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What REALLY happened to Drag Racing in 1964?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Dino the weirdo, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. Mazooma1
    Joined: Jun 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,598

    Mazooma1
    Member

    ???????????????:rolleyes::confused::p
     
  2. Hdonlybob
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 4,115

    Hdonlybob
    Member

    PLUS ONE !!!
    That is how we did it on the back streets !!!
    And the flag was usually your High School Letter Jacket !!!

     
  3. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Double ???????????????:rolleyes::confused::p

    We didn't live on credit then. Our currency had a standard = to gold bullion. There were no credit cards and we earned, swapped, and bartered our ability to race instead of making a minimum interest payment on it every month.

    Some of us were drivers. Some of us were mechanics and fabricators. Some of us used real life cars. Some of us fabricated what we raced out of boiler tubing, sheet tin and our imaginations in our yards or a neighbors garage. Some had purchasing power up front, some of us worked our way into it second hand.
    But in the final analysis, there was a place for anyone who had a minimum of talent and skill. You didn't just buy your way into racing on $$ alone.

    I can't help but feel this ability to drag or roundy race was different in other regions of the nation. Not many folk seem to relate.

    Hope this doesn't get me censored, but I believe the govt should help out anyone who was drafted away from occupation or education opportunities by making them exempt from taxes; an unlimited earning potential. And yes, we lost a lot of mentors to SE Asia........ back on task.

    Sadly that era had to pass. It's just a shame there was nothing to take it's place.
    Tom S.
     
  4. rick finch
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 3,504

    rick finch
    Member

    ^^^^
    We didn't live on credit then. Our currency had a standard = to gold bullion. There were no credit cards and we earned, swapped, and bartered our ability to race instead of making a minimum interest payment on it every month.

    Some of us were drivers. Some of us were mechanics and fabricators. Some of us used real life cars. Some of us fabricated what we raced out of boiler tubing, sheet tin and our imaginations in our yards or a neighbors garage. Some had purchasing power up front, some of us worked our way into it second hand.
    But in the final analysis, there was a place for anyone who had a minimum of talent and skill. You didn't just buy your way into racing on $$ alone.

    Well said Tom...:)
     
  5. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    What really happened???
    Ford introed the T-Bolt, and Chevy guys sniveled all the way home. LOL
     
  6. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    All kidding aside, THIS is what happened. $$$ took the place of privateer enterprise.
     
  7. what happened??? alittle thing called the 426HEMI chevys been cryin and bitchin ever since

    the other thing that happened were mid-sized cars with big car engines that were factory built and supported I.E. MUSCLECARS made crawlin around in junkyards and tryin to refurbish old junk a thing of the past......and here we are 40 od years later still crawling around junkyards and tryin to refurish old junk to compete against them or just enjoy being different
     
  8. speedexx
    Joined: Jul 6, 2008
    Posts: 93

    speedexx
    Member
    from Georgia

    Man, there has been some good posts on here lately. Some funnier than Hades too. :D

    1964 - gave us the 426 Mopar Hemi, wedge 427 Ford Thunderbolts, all that, while corporate GM had dropped out of racing in '63. But there was a mid-sized GM car tagged as the GTO, that started a whole new marketing trend called muscle cars, in '64.

    All of these things played into the changing face of dragracing. By the late 60's in the south, there were not very many "backyard bullets" left racing.
     
  9. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    When and where was the first Chrondek christmas tree handicap starting light system first utilized?
    Was it in 64'?
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
  10. speedexx
    Joined: Jul 6, 2008
    Posts: 93

    speedexx
    Member
    from Georgia

    Tom I read about that recently and am embarrassed to say I can't remember.
    "Probably" in '62 (perhaps Indy). I know the Dragstrip in Albany, GA had one installed in '63.
     
  11. Is this to say that with the new generation of cars and speed shops came the advent of bolt it in instead of fabricate to have what you want?
    I think of muscle cars as parts donors. I have said it to some folks that don't like that thinking of their car. Purists don't like it either. They all competed as NHRA got bigger and then Nascar went from sand to asphalt.
    The 426 was the answer after GM produced the 348 tri-power that led to the 409. Ford was in there too with enlarging the reliable FE. B block Chryslers are rooted in the late 50's as the '92 was being phase out in the 1959 production year. Then again, the J-2.
    WHEN DID THE RAMCHARGERS WORKING FOR CHRYSLER GET SHUT DOWN? Not shouting, a real question that I don't know the answer of. May be part of the question.
    OT So I don't need to bother with building a street A RP drag roadster and go play with the Mustangs that have a slicker body and shorter wheelbase? Bars would look somewhat OK, but don't see a cage as being visually correct. Thinkin' again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  12. Falconred
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 872

    Falconred
    Member

    I've been around the racing scene since the early sixties, being involved with both drag racing and round track and usually it is the racers themselves that change racing. Drivers and/or owners will spend twice as much as needed to win a 10th of what it takes to race when given a chance. When you are using a $15,000 frame and a $20,000 engine (cheap figures on both) to race for a possible $1000 or less winners purse you are missing the math.

    In '64 most were using their own skills to race and innovate new methods of going fast. The factories were sponsoring a few drivers in the S/S-/FX ranks as well as some in dragsters and etc but most were on their own. The availability of fast cars off the show room helped bring folks out to drag their new muscle car but they still couldn't compete with the factory guys in S/S after '64-65 or so. As has been said, Vietnam took a lot of racers and hot rodders away for several years and many didn't come back to the sport except for being casual spectators. Class racing became a search for .001 of a second and the average racer couldn't or wouldn't make the investment in time or money. Bracket racing probably did save drag racing on the local level with many graduating to become pro/semi-pros in the stock and super comp levels. I have raced all day and won my bracket and get a quart of oil, a can of STP, some wax and maybe 7 or 8 Dollars. Back at first all the cars in a bracket (7.0 to 7.99, 8.0-8.99 & etc) would run each other and then the winners of each bracket would race for top money. There were enough cars in each bracket to make it interesting because it made you feel like you were ALMOST running heads up.

    Electronics killed a lot of the fun racers because you just couldn't compete with them. I still don't like electronics and had rather have diarrhea than have a throttle stop. I was glad to see most tracks split the cars into BOX (electronics) and foot brake classes.

    Guess I have rambled on enough for now, hope all have a good racing season and enjoy what freedom this country has left. I believe in the Red, White and FORD Blue.
     
  13. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    Another aspect is that a lot of guys like myself got into Harleys. The eigth mile dirt tracks were a blast. Real country bumpkin, but simple and fun. Classes were simple. It took three to make a class. Same on a few of the asphalt outlaw (and I do mean outlaw) tracks. There was a lot of inovation like the old days of cars. I'm not knockin' muscle cars. I love them too!
     
  14. speedexx
    Joined: Jul 6, 2008
    Posts: 93

    speedexx
    Member
    from Georgia

    The vast majority didn't eat, drink & sleep dragracing like the serious ones did. Sure, it was something to do and talk about - for awhile, or during a certain period of their life. They were never committed to it. I thought I was, and it cost me a small fortune. But it remains the next best thing to sex, I've ever experienced. :D:D
     
  15. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Ditto Speedex. It became what we were know as; sometimes favorably..... and sometimes not.
    Personally, I view racers these days in terms of $,$$$,$$$.$$. The tow rigs astound me.
    Tom S.
     
  16. P426
    Joined: Mar 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,023

    P426
    BANNED
    from New Jersey

    IMO, that's the year that things started getting cool, and even cooler each subsequent year up to about 1974 which coincidentily(?) was the last year of what was left of the supercar era. In my view, the drag racing years of 1964-74 have to be the most colorful, exciting and innovative era that ever was. To me it was truly the "golden age" of drag racing.

    Pete
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  17. storm king
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,989

    storm king
    Member

    I'm with P426, and Americanthinker is a great blogspot. Also about the best days of drag racing, though. For me, NHRA's hostile attitude toward Chrysler pretty much ended it for my families' racing efforts. Why should we have had to race with different rules because of the brand of car we drove? I've had a deep rooted hatred of all things NHRA ever since...and of all things GM as a result of it. GM couldn't win the races, so they got NHRA to change the rules in their favor.
     
  18. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    Gospel! NHRA ('No Hot Rods Allowed') did just that. GM, the 'fair-haired child', also fared well in NASCAR, as I recall. (air intake restrictors fit to Fords)
     
  19. spiderdeville
    Joined: Jun 30, 2007
    Posts: 1,134

    spiderdeville
    Member
    from BOGOTA,NJ

    ha , jerry's stood for a long time after it closed
     
  20. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Things did get cool, but cool came to = $,$$$.00, which like national government debt, grew at an exponential rate. But, can't argue the cool factor though.
    I believe you are on target with the 64' - 74' year period also, and if I'm recalling correctly, in 1975 real racing cars were forced to become self starting, and the end of an era of spectator engaging pre-race announcer thrill building push starts.
    Unlike stick and ball sport organizations or even roundy car promoters, drag car sanctioning organizations forgot all about the spectators; you know, the people who spent $.00 to engage in this sport without actually being in competition.
    By 1975, W.R.Grace and others had totally commercialized drag racing, and trick wheels, 4bbl carbs and headers cost more than a synthetic leather ball to throw around in your yard to pretend with.

    Hope this does not profile me or something, but I can relate to the post 64' period also.
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
  21. ManiacT
    Joined: Dec 15, 2006
    Posts: 66

    ManiacT
    Member

    Have to agree with almost all the posts here. Recall just before Korea, we went to a dragstrip that was on an abandoned air strip. There were all kinds of 49 fords with radiused wheel wells, 41 willys coupes and pickups, 39 chevys, 40 fords with engines with 6/97's poking up.
    Went to Pellstate dragstrip that was a airstrip and raced in L/S in a 40 ford coupe with a 85 horse flathead engine and beat the current state champ. Noticed the flagman raised his heel before he lifted the flag each time, let out the clutch on that and got the jump on the 40 chevy with the blue flame 6. The officials wanted me to to submit to a CC test...ha.....finally got my trophy. Was the one of the best days of my life.
    We lost a bunch of good hotrodders as a result of both wars. Remember some black 57 chevys with gold chrome some of those guy either didn't come back or were changed forever. Oh well....
    Just love the HAMB drags the way they are for whatever reason, don't grow up....
     
  22. I started flagging in 1959. All the dragstrips were run by volunteer car clubs. Then someone smelled money and Wally sent out the drag strip safari. It went to hell after that. Anyone that says that the Vietnam war had nothing to do with it is full of shit.
     
  23. 55chevr
    Joined: Jul 12, 2008
    Posts: 985

    55chevr
    Member

    in the mid 60-s there were huge military buildups ... the country was drafting 55,000 men a month for the Vietnam war. The army took all the young drag racers off the streets and they came back 2-4 years older and ready starting families - if they came back.
     
    RidgeRunner likes this.
  24. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    I hate having to admit to the truth of these posts. No one gets it today.........
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
  25. gibraltar72
    Joined: Jan 21, 2011
    Posts: 260

    gibraltar72
    Member
    from Osseo Mi.

    In my day racing with a flagman they used car lengths setback I'm sure that was pretty much universal.
     
  26. gibraltar72
    Joined: Jan 21, 2011
    Posts: 260

    gibraltar72
    Member
    from Osseo Mi.

    From my perspective what happened was before 1964 we drove what we raced. We drove to the track put on slicks if we had them, uncorked the pipes and let her rip. Whatever you drove in they found a class for you, and it was usually just the enthusiasts but starting in about 62 give or take Factory and dealers began to get involved race on sunday sell on monday. I raced in Central Mi. and lots of dealers had their own race teams Bob Ford Ford, West Dearborn Ford, Serbay Motors Mad Moose, Etc New cars nice paint. Then Factories got the Message and you had direct factory involvement. They special built cars Thunderbolt etc. In this time frame it began getting nearly impossible to race the same car you drove on street and be competitive. Cars even in stock classes were so tricked out they had to be towed to track. NHRA had a lot to do with it too. But tracks weren't as accomodating to the little guy. Touring racers started to be the big deal and that was great spectator sport but I think it kinda took glamour off the average guys that just wanted to see if their hard work had shaved a tenth or two off their previous best. I stayed in it until bracket racing became the rage but that kinda killed it for me. Just like everything it evolved for many reasons just as Nascar left its roots and evolved some say for the good some say it just aint the same.
     
  27. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Guess I shouldn't have done that. Model A with a junkyard 324 Olds. Guess I'll have to throw out those trophies.
     
  28. HatGuy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2010
    Posts: 137

    HatGuy
    Alliance Vendor
    from Arkansas

    After reading as many of the posts on this subject as I can handle on my second cup of coffee, I find myself leaning toward only one possible conclusion...The sport of drag racing was invaded by the one thing that is almost inevitable in a capitalist country like ours...money! It has changed every sport it has come in contact with including Football, Baseball and Drag Racing. Take a look at the other two sports as they were in 1963-64 and then after '65...same deal, corporate sponsorship, advertising and the ever-present drive to "increase the gate" killed the opportunities for the average "Joe" to walk onto a field, or drive off of the street and do any good. And don't forget about Television either. About that time we all got good color televisions and some of the earliest races were seen on the "tube" for the first time...ad revenue and ratings came into play. Danm Shame! But hope springs eternal...All hail the H.A.M.B. drags and Nostalgia Drag racing.
     
  29. Dino the weirdo
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 891

    Dino the weirdo
    Member

    Been off Hamb for a while ...More I found on this ...If you look at pictoral history of drag racing, there is a visual split between 64 and 65. Experiments with stockers and FX cars started in 64, but 65 was it - Funny cars and high dollar match racing (high dollar for 65). 64 was the last year that all the fastest "FXers" and match racers looked like the family car.
    ........It was also the war. Gulf of Tonkin was September 1964, and this was the reason (excuse?) to move from advisors to combat troops. In a matter of months, we were at war, and would be for 8 combat/10 involvement years. It was way more than cars. You can almost say prewar/postwar Dover for 64. The war also changed attitudes and divided the country. It started in 64, but didn't reach its peak until 67ish, but 64 saw more draft card burnings . Drugs took off during that time, but 64 is not really a bellweather. In 64, the only weed laws were tax laws, but that would need some research. Booze was everywhere, but drugs appeared little by little over the next couple of years. Then drug use went nuts.
    Some see '64 as kids in madras racing the family car. It was never like that again.

    More Input from our guys on Dover Forum ...Larry N. said:"The preceding comments certainly are interesting, provacative and no doubt many factors influenced the 1964 "big happening". I think, very simply, we went from needing to build speed ourselves to being able to buy it right off the showroom floor. The revolution actually was slowly building in 1961-1962-1963 and it all hit the tracks in 1964. Henry Ford II had thrown open his checkbook for Ford to dominate in racing; Dodge & Plymouth didn't want to be left at the line, so they were designing race cars as fast as they could; Chevrolet "withdrew" from racing in 1963, but no one believed that and they had clandestine activities in the works.
    I agree with the previous statements that "putting on a show" became important to track owners and also racers realized they could get paid to have fun. Plus, established racers were sought out and compensated in various ways by the car companies to run their "stock" drag cars."Keep finding things on the internet ,that I think all of us were oblivious to..Being wrapped up "doing Our thing"...but when you think about it ...it all contributed , and was effecting things .even if we were'nt aware til way later.Heck ,I didn't watch the News or read the paper ...too busy at being busy with my 'stuff'. Do remember we got let out of school the day Kennedy got shot...were kind of lost to comprehend it. Found this :

    Friday, November 22, 1963, Dallas - the end of Camelot.
    The assassination of JFK on that day cast a pall over the U.S - that generation never recovered from that day - we all knew where we were at that moment. The short administration of JFK offered such promise during the cold war (threat of nuclear annihilation), and it all disappeared in an instant.
    TV was still in its infancy - the JFK tragedy and the following crazy days revolutionized the industry. On 11/22/63, cameras at the major network newsrooms were off, and had to be "warmed up". News was still wire service based.
    1964 dawned with a country in mourning and TV news services warmed up and at the ready. Reporting would never be the same, and in 65, the war would come to our living rooms each night.

    AND THIS:
    The GTO - One could argue that putting a cross ram 413 in a mid size unibody was the first "Muscle Car", but most car historians agree it was the 64 GTO. A big engine in a small car - did that ever change the industry. Pontiac left all the others scrambling. It is suspected that the test car provided to the magazines of the time actually had a 421 prepped by Royal, but no one would ever admit to that.

    The Mustang - the 64 1/2 Mustang - people have written books about it. Everybody, had one. Introduced on April 17, 1964, at the New York World's Fair. (Went to That ...past the old FreedomLand with my Girl freind) Now the world had "Pony Cars" and "Muscle Cars", both in 64. Larry was right...didn't have to build them...just buy them.
    Found More...It all had an effect somehow....
    Sunday, February 9th, 1964.
    "Ladies and gentlemen, THE BEATLES"
    ....Everyone left Dover Early to get in front of the TV to Watch Ed Sullivan.
    Ed Roth, The Rat Fink, claimed in his biography,(Confessions of a Rat Fink), that the Beatles ruined the model car culture. He felt that after the Beatles appeared, kids who were building models(Getting interested in Hot Rods-Drag Cars, before they had a license) bought guitars and started bands. Not sure this is true, but model sales really fell off around this time.Then Revell (His Freinds) stopped making the "component kits"-(Which you could mix & Match engines and Chassis and stuff). I even stopped building and got....A Guitar! ....before I started At Dover-'67 ...I even had a Band.
    The British Invasion used american influences, and changed everything from fashion -art -hair- but not the pre-64 mainstream music. The Beatles and the Stones looked to Elvis, Carl Perkins, Eddie Cochran, Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, that type of music, not what you heard on the Am dial!...the times ...they were a -changin'.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  30. Dino the weirdo
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 891

    Dino the weirdo
    Member

    1964 Billboard Top 40 end of year Hot Singles :
    1 "I Want to Hold Your Hand" The Beatles
    2 "She Loves You" The Beatles
    3 "Hello, Dolly!" Louis Armstrong
    4 "Oh, Pretty Woman" Roy Orbison
    5 "I Get Around" The Beach Boys <<<<<
    6 "Everybody Loves Somebody" Dean Martin
    7 "My Guy" Mary Wells
    8 "We'll Sing in the Sunshine" Gale Garnett
    9 "Last Kiss" J. Frank Wilson & the Cavaliers
    10 "Where Did Our Love Go" The Supremes
    11 "People" Barbra Streisand
    12 "Java" Al Hirt
    13 "A Hard Day's Night" The Beatles
    14 "Love Me Do" The Beatles
    15 "Do Wah Diddy Diddy" Manfred Mann
    16 "Please Please Me" The Beatles
    17 "Dancing in the Street" Martha and the Vandellas
    18 "Little Children" Billy J. Kramer & The Dakotas
    19 "Love Me with All Your Heart (Cuando Calienta El Sol)" The Ray Charles Singers
    20 "Under the Boardwalk" The Drifters
    21 "Chapel of Love" The Dixie Cups
    22 "Suspicion" Terry Stafford
    23 "Glad All Over" The Dave Clark Five
    24 "Rag Doll" The Four Seasons
    25 "Dawn (Go Away)" The Four Seasons
    26 "Bread and Butter" The Newbeats
    27 "It Hurts to Be in Love" Gene Pitney
    28 "Dead Man's Curve" Jan and Dean <<<<<<<
    29 "Come a Little Bit Closer" Jay and the Americans
    30 "A World Without Love" Peter and Gordon
    31 "Have I the Right?" The Honeycombs
    32 "Don't Let the Rain Come Down " The Serendipity Singers
    33 "Baby Love" The Supremes
    34 "Let It Be Me" Betty Everett & Jerry Butler
    35 "Wishin' and Hopin'" Dusty Springfield
    36 "You Don't Own Me" Lesley Gore
    37 "Walk On By" Dionne Warwick
    38 "The House of the Rising Sun" The Animals
    39 "G.T.O." Ronny & the Daytonas <<<<<<<
    40 "Twist and Shout" The Beatles
     

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