Hello all. I am warning you that Max Herman Jr. at H&H in LaCrescenta CA. does not deliver as he promises. I have ordered an engine from him October 2005 with considerable large prepayment. At that time we agreed him to send the engine on late Feb.-early March. I hoped to get it installed in April. April came and he didn't have done it! He said he had pretty much all the parts and it takes cople of more weeks. I have called him again at the beginning of May and I'm got roundy answers that it takes couple of more weeks and he didn't have some parts yet. C'mon man, It does NOT take seven or more months from pro machinists to build any kind of engine! I don't know if I ever get the engine or my deposit back! I believe that collects prepayments from people as much as he can and does not worry about that too much. He may also sell your engine to another guy in a while if you're not local and be there watching him. So, try some other company like Piranios in TX with your special banger needs! I write this to you with my real name. Jukka Virta Finland
Wasn't this the place that Barney Navarro gave (sold) all of his patterns to so that his wonderful flathead products would continue to be available. If so this suck even worse as there will be a lot of people wanting Barneys stuff and won't be able to get it. Frank
were any of the parts you ordered labelled as taking a lot of time to arrive in stock? I know a lot of the high compression heads, overhead valve conversions, etc. are only produced once a year, some companies tell you that up front, some don't. Sorry to hear your troubles, I've been jerked around and it's no fun. Good luck
`Don't know anything about H&H but if I told you how long I took (waited) to (get) make some trick flatmotor stuff it is insane.I generally make my own stuff and it takes forever.Two side to every story and sound like you left some stuff out.Don't think Barney would pick a fuck-up.
PS,I have been waiting 10 years for Barney to make more late heads.I hear H&H has just run a batch off.What kind of motor are we talking about?
Jukka Virta, My name is Max Herman Sr. from H & H. We are in the process of assembling your Ardun Overhead as I write this response. Your engine that you ordered required a number of very special components that we promptly ordered for your project, Side drive unit for the Magneto, Magneto with a advance and retard unit, Original Ansen side valve door cover, New V/8 Water Pump ( Harry Frier built) as well as a few other components all of which e are very selective as to our sources. For example we use only Manley Performance Valves in our Model A and V/8 Flatheads, yes they are more expensive and we have a running 90 day order with Manley and they are US Made not the Import look alike being sold by all other vendors as big valve conversion. We thought we would get our new H beam rods in for this project of which we were going to put in at no cost to you, but they will not be done until appox. July. These project take a fair amount of time, and when you were here at the shop we had the head in stock and the engine components but we do have to rely on other suppliers for items such as the Magneto, which came in last week, as well as the side drive mag unit. I will be making the mount pad for the mag myself as the side drive unit set off is not what I wanted and to avoid another month, I will do it myself. There are no issues with our shop as to failure to deliver any any engine although special projects do have setbacks. These are not Pep Boy SBC engines, and after 40 plus years in the 4 banger and flathead engines , we will not compromise workmanship for pressure. My oldest son Max 3 does all the 4 Bangers ( H & H Antique H and H Antique.com) my middle son Mike does all the flatheads ( H & H Flatheads flatheads-forever.com) Mike purchased from Navarro all the Flathead buisness, and I am reproducing the Scot Blower, of which should be at the LA Roadster meet.Max does all the 4 Bangers of which total about 120 per year. I anticipate that your engine will be done in 2 weeks ready for shippment. As for the post of trading engines etc., I will tell you point blank that is 110% bs, so dont hide behind a key board. We have built this buisness as a family biz and pride ourselves in customer service , from seminars to National Events, to shop tour and seminars and support all the clubs and organizations with any needs we can help them with. There is never a time when we do not take the time in a day to answer questions and help solve problems customers may have even unrelated to engines, tune up etc., as well as give them advice as to their projects whether they buy from us or not. Check with Glen Mitchell at Mitchell Overdrive, Larry Broomfield, Broomfield Cyl Heads, Hot Rods & Customs in Escondito, Old Ford Garage Jim Norman Valley Center, Meets Early Ford Lake Elsinore, Marlin Perry MAFCA National, Jim Frazee MAFCA National and many more. We have a excellent reputation for our products and service and customer service above all and continually R & D products so as to supply the best to our customers. I will be more than glad to answer any questions , so feel free to all at 1-818-248-2347.
We have been waitng 3 months for various segements of the Navarro heads to be done, repairing old patterns, castings, machining etc., and it looks like we will have most all the line by the June Fathers Day LA Roadster meet, as well as the SCot Blower and the H beam rods for the 4 Bangers. This section of the biz is Mike Herman of H & H Flatheads at6 flatheads-forever.com, and you are right Barney did pick the right place for his legacy to continue. Spoke with Donna and Barney the other day and all is well except he is still bummed that he is not healing as quickly as he wants.
Fab32, We have all the Navarro products up to speed currently, the Blower Manifold, 4 BBL Manifold, 2X2 Racing Manifold, 2X2 Regular Manifold,3X2 Manifold, Dog Bone Heat Riser, Nostalgia Heads, 8BA Heads, High Dome Heads, SCot Blowera and a few other pieces. Donna came up to the shop and brought some more pieces her and Barney found and unfortunatly they were the rest of core box's for the 4bbL that Mike ( my son) just spent a little over 15K to reproduce, these aare just a few problems you can encounter when yoour in biz.
Seems pretty up front to me. It took me a while to find parts for my flatty and it isn't nearly as fancy as this one sounds. Max, glad to see the products available again and hope to do some business sometime. Give Barney best wishes on recovery, Flatman
I had nothing but positive dealings with H and H..Max is a super guy...Any time your dealing with rare parts in this business you should expect delays..I hate it when dirty laundry is spread all over....There is a time for it but not after just a 45 day delay..Patience is a virtue...My 2 cents
i wont comment on the reason this thread was created but iam *slightly* suprised some of you guys dont know who H&H flathead is... their reputation in Los Angeles is stellar, I have NOT heard one bad thing about them.... they have also been in business for decades dealing with flatheads (4 bangers). would Barney Navarro have entrusted his lifes work to a bunch of shysters? i think not... the man has more years of experiences dealing with various people than most of us ever will. there are 2 sides to every story. flatdog - just read your reply and couldnt agree more
A fucking Ardun, this guy think parts are like Toyota parts. Just order and they show up.I give you guys a tip real deal people ain't got time for complainers.They are to buissy trying to work.
Hey Plan9... I live in SoCal and I eat breathe and sleep cars, but I havent heard of them. Honestly, I just need to get out more.... hahaha As for the Findland guy, I am damn happy that someone is doing what these guys are doing. If they stuck you with a lemon and then said screw you I would understand your complaint, but give them a little slack. I work in custom manufacturing and things being past due are a part of life. Maybe they should communicate a little better, but if you havent noticed hotrod related buisnesses tend to be short on proper customer service procedures but this seldom means the products suck. Obviously H&H isnt a large corporation with 500 employees... I would cut them a little slack. Hyfire
Hey guys I was way off base on my first reply to this post I have been in contact with the shop and they are being held up over parts from other suppliers==this being said I apologize for the remarks about the shop and posting to the HAMB does bring results, in this case all positive as to the shop==Jukka just wait you will be happy soon Kenagain
H & H is a great company. I have delt with Max and his son. Nice motor you are having built. I am having a basically stock one built buy a shop local to me, and I have been waiting longer than you.
I'm glad to see that the MAN himself has come on and cleared the air in this manner. As to my post, I was merely asking if this was the place that Barney had intrusted his life work to. I found it unlikely that he would drop the ball this late in the game so I just speculated about the outcome if things were to go bad. I apologize if my comments were misdirected (and it appears that they were) and I hope this will settle the matter from my direction. Barney's products deserve NOTHING but the best as far as production and quality is concerned. Future generations deserve to have available the results of years of expermenting and refining that are represented by Mr. Navarro's products. As of now I'm confident that this is going to be the case and look forward to the new owners carrying on the legacy. Frank
OK, I'm an FNG here (actually, I think I've finally crossed over to Newb...) and I don't know anybody involved in this. Anyway, I read this thread, and everyone's all into cutting H&H slack, and then start tearing into Reindeer. OK, H&H has posted here, and looks to be an honest post to clear some air. MUCH kudos for that. But I gotta say- step back an inch or two, and cut Reindeer a tiny bit of slack as well. Have none of us been on the "other" end of a deal, where it feels like you're being strung along, and you're getting frustrated as hell, and your plans to have your ride done for summer just kinda got blown to shit? Doesn't matter whose fault it is, it still frustrates you. I dunno... I ain't saying anyone's a good guy or bad guy or whatever, just that I can understand where he's coming from. October until now is a long time for anything, especially if you were estimated at Feb/ March. Again, I ain't saying H&H is bad, alright? I just want to reiterate that. Just saying that I agree with Muttley- I've felt the pain. I figured the guy I recently bought a (broken) windshield off of was a scammer. The thing was SO poorly packaged that I was thinking it was broken before he even shipped it and I was gonna be F'ed. I stewed on this for a few days, not hearing much from him. Built it up pretty bad in my head. Then I got a refund notice from PayPal. Granted, I didn't post about him on the HAMB, but give it a few more weeks (not to mention months) and I'd have gotten around to it. Reindeer posted a frustrated beef on here, MadMax replied, and hopefully they'll bring their deal to a smiley-faced conclusion when it closes.
H&H have been real stand-up by my standards w/ top notch products. Each year I see them a the L.A. Roadster show and each time Im blown away. H&H are top notch in my book.
H&H seems extremely stand-up to me. Just judging by MadMax's public response to some disparaging comments from a clearly frustrated customer. He was very courteous, and clearly professional in not getting steamed and telling reindeer to F.O. right out of the gate, and I don't doubt that that ran through his mind just like it would've run through any of ours as well. It's the professional, stand-up guy that doesn't immediately go that route and start name calling, etc. I'm very impressed by H&H's handling of this. I hope I didn't give any impression to the contrary. And it's readily apparent that folks who are in-the-know hold H&H in the highest regard- no doubt that's why Reindeer chose them in the first place.
H&H, Max, Jr., Mike are ALL stand-up guys with one Hell of a reputation. They deliver on what they say. The BEST all around Guys to deal with. Navarro made an EXCELLENT choice in shops! H&H stands behind there work, in fact, Max is going to the dyno shop with me and my dad with a banger they did some fantastic work on. Most of you already saw the banger last week on youtube in the 100mph banger post! My name is- *Keven Vaughan*
Elmo Rodge & I did the last actual late set 49-53 24 studs that Barney had, In fact he gifted this set of raw castings to Nick & I called & confirned this with Barney before we ever were to make a cut or drill out a stud boss. Mike Herman purchased the tooling & rights for production from Donna Navarro. She felt that Barney should not have to worry about such things. I know Mike on a business level & I hope that this gets rectified. As for the late model tooling, They may be working on it. Kevin
Word. 1. A deadline was still missed. That's certainly not Reindeer's fault is it? 2. Very nice to see H&H confront the issue head on through the H.A.M.B. I think it would be appropriate for those not involved to bite their lips at this point and let these fellas work out their deal.
I just wish that H&H could tell me what spark plugs I need to use with my Navarro High Dome heads, I do know they are 3/4 reach 14mm plugs BUT the plug number they gave me is not a 3/4 reach plug, the only plugs I have been able to figure out are extended tip plugs and they get hit by the exhaust valve. I guess I will keep trying to figure it out on my own I hope I get the right heat range etc. and don't ruin my new engine.
In June of '04 I walked up to the H&H booth at the L.A. Roadster show ready to buy an engine from H&H. I gave Mike a 50% deposit, in cash, for an 8BA. The following Saturday Mike drove down to San Diego, in his own vehicle, and delivered the engine to me at my home! Customer service doesn't get any better than that!
This was never meant to be a complaint about Barney or anything else. I just wanted people to know that if you want the good stuff sometimes you have to wait to get it. I was just making the point that I will do whatever it takes to get the stuff including waiting ten years. Sometimes my sarcasm right online. Sorry for any misunderstandings.
Racer, I also have a set of high domes but I've never run them. I may have some notes from Barney buried in my notes somewhere. I have run into similar problems with valve clearance on my .460" lift cam and offy heads. How I've dealt with it is by clipping the ground strap on the plug and bringing it in on the side. What you must realize is that each one of these flathead racing motors are basically one-offs and you really have to do your own research. I suggest starting with something that you think is too cold.
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