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History The 1958 NHRA Nationals

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by HEMI32, May 15, 2008.

  1. Bullet Nose
    Joined: Nov 20, 2001
    Posts: 2,570

    Bullet Nose
    Member

    Art Chrisman on the right racing someone .....

    15vs.jpg
     
  2. Here's a photo of John Cassaubon's '50 Shoebox (built by Clarkaiser Customs) on the grass at the '58 NHRA Nats:

    John Cassaubon's '50 Ford by Clarkaiser Customs (by Tom Medley).jpg
    photo by Tom Medley​
     
  3. Brian @Bass recently acquired '58 Nats entry #97 ... the Miller Morriss Deuce Roadster:

    Entry #97.jpg

    Brian Bass in his Miller Morriss Deuce Roadster.jpg

    Miller Morriss B Street Roadster.jpg

    NOTE: Brian plans to return the car to its '50s B/STR glory! ... including a Hilborn injected 265ci SBC.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  4. damn it.....glad it's in good hand's....
     
    kidcampbell71 and els like this.
  5. oh...and gotta a luv a car with L-60's........
     
    els likes this.
  6. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,190

    drumyn29
    Member

    els likes this.
  7. Just a bump of an old thread ... 'cuz I spent a couple hours fixing all my posts with images hosted on Photobucket ... and replaced them with higher rez versions of the images.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  8. Bullet Nose
    Joined: Nov 20, 2001
    Posts: 2,570

    Bullet Nose
    Member

    Glad you did.

    I'm looking for some other photos I took there to post on this thread.
     
    Stogy, 3dnsouth, els and 1 other person like this.
  9. Ottomotive
    Joined: Oct 6, 2017
    Posts: 32

    Ottomotive
    Member
    from Arkansas

    My brother, our friend, and I all went to the Oklahoma City 1958 NHRA Nationals. These are just a couple photos from that weekend.

    I am in the striped shirt. We left Little Rock Saturday morning and snapped this photo in Oklahoma before arriving.
    OK City 58 1.jpg

    We got there after lunch, and this was the first photo we took.
    OK City 58 2.jpg
    I was 16 years old, and this was my first major drag race to attend.
     
  10. Good to see an old photo of the Miller Morris roadster..I sold him many parts back in the late 50s early
    60s from my avatar...Custom Automotive Dallas,Texas
     
    kidcampbell71, KKrod and AHotRod like this.
  11. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 12,216

    AHotRod
    Member

    Post all the pictures you have of the race cars Ottomotive !
     
    Stogy and Spoggie like this.
  12. wrenchbender
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,337

    wrenchbender
    Member

    I'm assuming that is your car with The front wheels photochopped in if so that thing is badass and honestly if it had some painted steelies on the front it would be just as badass it has a great stance and of course engine choice is fantastic


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  13. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 9,289

    jnaki

    Hey Hemi 32,
    NICE OLD DRAG RACING THREAD...Not to take anything away from your 57-58 drag racing thread, but the following reply is to clear up or help another question about those early drag racing days and rules.

    Jnaki


    Hey D,
    Your sedan looks cool, but if your Hemi were moved several inches back, then it would be in the Altered class back in 1958-59. With an engine set back, open individual headers, it would have been relegated to the Altered Class competition. There were many street legal gas coupes racing in those classes. But, if they did something to not qualify for the Gas Coupe/Sedan class, they were labeled for the Altered class.

    The Altered rules were specific, but the local dragstrips put legal street Gas Coupes/Sedans in those classes if they failed one inspection or another in their own class. No interior, altered, only one bucket seat, altered, individual exhaust pipes without collectors removed, altered...etc. The list is long. The altered class engine set back would not have been great for comfortable street driving in any coupe or sedan.

    We had just taken out the 2nd bucket seat in our 40 Willys Coupe for some floor repair and construction. Upon inspection, they told us C/Altered, not C/gas. So, I had to drive home to get the other bucket seat to install and qualify for the C/Gas class racing at Lions.

    There were skinny Halibrands on the fronts of gas coupes and sedans in 1960 as they began to get popular. Our plans for the front wheels of our 671 SBC 40 Willys Coupe were skinny slot Halibrands along with huge slots in the rear and M&H slicks. They were on order, ready for pick up in L.A. But, we had an explosion the week before and had to cancel all ready to pick up orders for our street legal Willys.

    Look at the Pittman/Edwards red Willys Coupe progression online. They went from steel red wheels to slot Halibrands within a year, during the 1959-60 So Cal racing season. BY 1961-64, most gas coupes had slot Halibrands as the wheel set up for drag racing. Then came the tons of copies for street use.


    Jnaki
    By 1964,Halibrands were the thing to use and race in the Gas Coupe/Sedan classes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  14. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 9,289

    jnaki


    Hey D,
    You are correct, I over looked the fender thing. While looking at old Drag News articles, they always had rules for classes. Yes, fenders and other street legal items were required for racing. Your sedan would be in the Altered class. But, because your engine set back is not as far back as other "legal" altered sedans, you would be at a disadvantage in racing. Put those fenders back on and it would be a Gas Coupe/Sedan class race car.

    As far as set backs, in the Gas Coupe/Sedan class, it was legal for a 10% setback. Most modified the firewall to accommodate the set back clearances. The Altered class had up to 25% set backs which gave them more advantage than the modified Gas Coupes/Sedans that got plopped into those Altered classes with a few street legal errors or lack of street legal items.

    I would look up any old articles about the early rule books on drag racing. or look for some Drag News papers showing the Standard 1320 Class Rules which most people followed until the NHRA got involved.

    Jnaki
    Current classic drag racing class associations have their own rules for set ups. So you will have to see what is required. Back then, it wasn't performance to get into classes, but set ups vs horsepower. Street legal items or not...

    We started in B/gas with a 283 SBC with 6 Strombergs in our 40 Willys. Add a 671 supercharger and definitely in B/Gas. But, increase the C.I. to 292 and that was B/Gas for sure. Same weight of our Willys with both configurations. If the added weight is part of the structure of the car, like welded in steel plates over the rear axle in the trunk, then it was enough for us to drop down to the C/Gas class to be more competitive. We were very competitive as our times and speed were close to the National Record for C/Gas in 1960.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  15. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 9,289

    jnaki

    Hey Hemi 32,

    Besides all of the information passed back and forth, your original thread of the Nationals in 58 started us off on the wanting to go to the Nationals, racing. Since it was held in OKC, it was a little closer to our house in So Cal. We may have even run across my wife's family, waaay back then. Ha !

    But, we were just getting started and the only thing we knew about the Nationals, was what we read locally in the magazines and then Drag News. The thought of racing locally, traveling to other So Cal strips, then off on a journey through the Southwest was inviting for a couple of teenagers for a summer vacation.

    It never happened, but as teenagers we set our sights on the 1960 Nationals for sure, once we got our 671 SBC 40 Willys running well. Everything was falling into place for our cross country trip back to Detroit. But, things happen for a reason...and it did, in August, one month before the trip.

    It was a nice read of your original post and following posts. They started the memory banks churning again.
    Thanks,
    Jnaki
     
  16. This is an awesome thread – it's been super helpful for the research I've been doing for my car. I had posted a couple of questions about the 58/59 era of hot rodding, and have now deleted them to keep the thread focused on the 58 NHRA Nationals. Thank you for taking the time to post this thread @HEMI32 and thank you @jnaki and @AHotRod for taking the time to answer my questions. Cheers!
     
  17. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 9,289

    jnaki

    Hey DR,
    Here is one last item I found in my files: It is a post from an old HAMB thread giving the Gas Coupe and Sedan class breakdown. I wrote a reply to our resident HAMB Willys expert, Elgringo71 in 2016.


    Hello EG,
    Actually, Willys coupes were more prevalent at the strips. (within a two mile radius of our house in Long Beach, near Lions, there were 3 stock, Willys coupes to be found in overgrown grassy yards and in backyards, not one sedan to be found anywhere.) The sedans gave more weight over the rear tires for traction, but for the most part, racers wanted lighter weight cars for the classes. If the combination of motor vs weight was brought in, as in the chart:[​IMG]
    Most simple set ups for cars was to put in a SBC and set up a simple stick transmission, trying to use most of the stock stuff to save on money spent. Then, later, the high, money, speed stuff came into play.
    Simple example:
    Racers just wanted a 283 sbc in a stock willys:
    6 Strombergs / 283 SBC La Salle 3 speed
    2500lbs/283 = 9.20 lbs/cubic inch equals B/Gas
    In our 40 Willys coupe the first time we built it with the 283, it fell into B/Gas vs Thompson, Pittman, Hirshfield...etc...that was a depressing outlook... for us newbies... So, our ET and speeds were closer to the racers in C/Gas, so we opted to be the best in that class. (with added weight)

    The sedans weighed more and there was the possibililty that they would drop easily into the C/Gas category with the same set up. (like the Weddle and Peters green Willys sedan. This clip is what everyone seems to think is the Weddle/Peters C/Gas record holder in 1959 Riverside Raceway.)
    Thanks,
    Jnaki


    upload_2018-6-8_5-3-2.png upload_2018-6-8_5-2-50.png models from 61-63 upload_2018-6-8_5-3-27.png
    The 1961 version Pittman/Edwards at the U.S. NATIONALS (Halibrand slots) By 1964, KS Pittman was running a lightweight, 33 Willys coupe.
    with Halibrand slots...
    Thanks to this great thread from 1957-58 and the memories...hope the information helped. Obviously, these guys were inspirations to us young teenagers back in 58-60 to make our own Willys coupe run as fast as possible.

    Jnaki
     
  18. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 9,289

    jnaki



    Hey D,
    I knew I saw something about the 1958 rules somewhere on the HAMB. Ever since this topic was posted, I have been researching for this topic and copy of the 1958 rules posted by Rainier Hooker. Back in March of 2017, HAMB member, Rainier Hooker posted a rule book:

    upload_2018-6-13_6-28-8.png
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...or-drag-coupster.1052761/page-2#post-11944646
    A/SR MODEL A SURVIVOR DRAG COUPSTER
    page 2, about 1/2 way down. It is the best clear copy of the 1958 rule book that we all looked at prior to our drag racing builds. They did not change that much for 59-60.

    Jnaki
    That copy/scan of the rules book is as clear as an original book. Great job scanning with a clear resolution, RH.


    Following the rules to the letter, we were able to get a grip on what was legal and not. Our 40 Willys Coupe with the Strombergs and SBC plus weight qualified for the B/Gas class. Later on in 1960, we pumped up the motor to 292 C.I. and got speed parts to work better with a 671 GMC supercharger and the Strombergs. That definitely kept us in B/Gas.

    But as young and competitive as we were, those B/Gas class times and speeds were still 1 sec off and 12 mph off. That was too much to over come without more money, which we had in future speed parts that were on order. But for the current days, we decided to weld steel plates into the floor of the trunk for stability in the total structure and weight over the rear wheels.

    Now, within the rules book, we were reclassified as C/Gas and our times were close to the national record. We were really having fun, until...
     
  19. @jnaki what a great resource! Thank you for connecting me with the 58 rule book, it has all the answers I was seeking. Now I need to weigh my car to figure out what class I'd be in. Also big thank yous to @RainierHooker for scanning and posting the rule book.
     
  20. Ottomotive
    Joined: Oct 6, 2017
    Posts: 32

    Ottomotive
    Member
    from Arkansas

    There was a car show Saturday night and I took a few photos. This car was one of my favorites. Carl Stone's 32 roadster was my favorite. OK City 58 2c.jpg
     
  21. Harold (@Ottomotive) Ott -

    Great photo! ... Thanks for sharing! ... Much appreciated!

    Please feel free to share more of your photos and/or stories of the '58 OKC Nats!
     
  22. photo in above post is not CARLS 32......
     
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  23. @wbrw32 - Correct ... it's of Maurice H. Babb's '32 Roadster out of Abilene (note caption on bottom of photo).

    I think what @Ottomotive was trying to convey in his post was that Babb's '32 (pictured) was one of his favorite cars at the '58 Nats event ... but that his "most favorite" car at the entire '58 Nats event was Carl Stone's '32 Roadster.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  24. Ottomotive
    Joined: Oct 6, 2017
    Posts: 32

    Ottomotive
    Member
    from Arkansas

    Sorry for the confusion. I not really good at this. I been reading the Caddo Mills thread. I went there after the 59 AHRA Nationals at Great Bend Kansas. I was just a kid with a camera.
    Carl Stone 32 Ford a.jpg

    I have no idea who the man in the picture is.
     
  25. The above photo IS Carls roadster,however that is NOT Carl standing beside it,,Carl was a heftier man
    than that..I assume it is Chas Smith who ran with Carl back in those days..
     
  26. dugydog
    Joined: Nov 28, 2008
    Posts: 295

    dugydog
    Member

    This is an fantastic thread! I just (last month) purchased a 1935 Ford Coupe that was raced by John Wheeler in the 1958 Nats. I recently received a video of the car as it appeared in 1958 which includes the Oklahoma Nats, from the previous owner. I've re-posted to this thread.
     
  27. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 9,289

    jnaki

    upload_2019-2-9_4-22-16.png Isky Special
    The long trip was almost a full day’s drive to OKC. Junior Thompson (Speed Engineering Spl. and crew) was one of the few brave souls from the Westcoast to make that trip to the 58 Nationals from So Cal. Despite the long drive, the rewards were there and richly deserved.
    upload_2019-2-9_4-27-45.png
    Hello,

    We knew the history of Junior Thompson and his Studebaker Sedan from reading our daily Drag News purchased at our local speed shop. The sedan was always in an article or an advertisement of some sorts. Back in 1958, we saw Junior Thompson’s black 4 door Studebaker at Lions Dragstrip. It was an impressive looking 4 door sedan among the smaller coupes and roadsters.

    This big sedan had already made a name for itself and Junior Thompson was on his way to becoming one of the best in this hot, So Cal environment of Gas Coupes and Sedans. But, the motor, driver, and build made it one of the fastest in the Gas Coupe and Sedan Classes at the time. His races vs. Doug Cook’s 37 Chevy, K.S.Pittman’s Willys coupe, and Al Hirshfield’s Studebaker Sedan were legendary. They were in the top echelon status of the Gas Coupe and Sedan Class in So Cal, as well as elsewhere.

    Thompson vs Hirshfield

    During time trials, sometimes there were match ups just for kicks. Here is one photo that would have been cool to watch if they actually raced.
    upload_2019-2-9_4-28-57.png 1958 Lions Dragstrip …no, the race did not happen.
    When we were racing the 58 Impala at Lions, Jr. Thompson’s Studebaker was usually there. He won a lot of B/Gas races, even the old 4 across races, too. Some Saturdays, there were so many cars in one class that during eliminations, 4 cars took up the whole dragstrip for their races. Put a 283 in a lightweight Ford Coupe: B/Gas. The 4 across was usually in C/Gas and/or B/Gas.

    Jnaki

    The team from Jr. Thompson’s Shop was an inspiration to us young teenagers. The sound from the big Studebaker had that “whine” that just made this Gas Coupe/Sedan class winner, awesome.

    upload_2019-2-9_4-29-52.png Lions 1958-59
    Here is the latest “sound” development movie of Junior Thompson at Lions in 1959. This black Studebaker was one of the most consistent winners in all of the Gas Coupes and Sedan classes. Every week, it was in the winner’s circle with the ever present Lions Dragstrip trophy. I am sure he has one of those coveted, red Lions class winner jackets.

    The film was taken at Lions in the summer of 1959 and the sound came from Junior Thompson at the September U.S. Nationals at Detroit in 1959. They fit each other, right down to the exact shifting marks.
    Jr. Thompson Studebaker SOUND

    This is what gas coupes and sedans sounded like in this 58-60 era of West Coast drag racing in the class. The sound could be interspersed between any of the above named, gas coupes and race cars.



     
  28. TerrytheK
    Joined: Sep 12, 2004
    Posts: 1,273

    TerrytheK
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Had missed this thread until now, glad I ran across it. Very cool history from those who lived it; goes great with a cup of coffee on a "below-zero" Minnesota winter morning. Thanks!
     
    Stogy, kidcampbell71 and HEMI32 like this.
  29. I just realized I never posted these photos of Charles Scott's famous ARDUN-powered T Roadster at the '58 Nats:

    Scotty's Muffler Spl - driven by Bud Barnett.jpg
    NO. 113
    ENTRY Scotty's Muffler Spl.
    DRIVER Bud Barnett
    CITY Bloomington, Calif.
    CAR '24 Ford
    ENGINE '48 Ford Ardun



    Scotty's Muffler Spl - Best Appearing @ '58 OKC Nats.jpg
    The “Antiques” Car Club from Colton California were awarded a trophy for having the "Best Car" in the (Friday, August 29th) pre-Nationals parade through downtown Oklahoma City ... the Queens added their approval.​
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019

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