Technical Frame boxing necessary?

On a ‘39 Ford coupe with a spicy 276” 8BA, all original suspension, brakes, fenders, etc is boxing the frame necessary or recommended? Seems to be debatable on traditional cars not running OHV Hi-po motors, etc. It’s presently stripped to the bare frame, which is in pretty good shape with only one rusty spot that’s a little Swiss cheesed. Opinions?


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No

 

I'd think not with the original suspension and not that much extra power.

 

^^^ x3

 

Then again, why not do it now while it's stripped. Save you doing it later if you decide to up the horsepower.

 

That frame has a hefty X member. What is sometimes needed in an A frame or 32 frame is not required in the later frames.

So no, in my opinion it does not require boxing.

 

If you multiply the engine max torque with the lowest gear ratio you get the torque that the transmission puts out, and applies to the engine/transmission mounts and rear axle mounts (not counting temporary peaks from dumping the clutch etc.). It would be interesting to see how much the frame twists if that amount of torque is applied to it. Not very hard, just strap one end down and use a lever of appropriate length with the right weight on the end to twist the frame.

 

no mention of blackbeard,....
Oh how this place has changed.

 

x3...
building an 11ga., '30 on a '32 frame, going to get a slightly warmed 302...
I will box about 2 feet under the hood/cowl seam and the flat to kick up in the rear...
I also slide the bottom edge of the boxing plate inward about 3/8", leaving a flange where I can attach a cable, wire or tube later on when I can't get a drill in there,
I don't fear the 302 motor twisting anything... $0.02.

 

Of course there is two ways about it. But I am thinking spanners way is most appropriate. Let's add that metal fatigues and your frame is going on its 80th birthday. It all ready has who knows how many years and that frame being beaten on the roads. There is no better time than in your present situation to get the added benefit of boxing the frame. You never know the future for what engine will be the next one after the 276er. You do not want to fart around boxing with body, engine ,drive train, brake /fuel/electrical and have to remove it. You do not say where the Swiss cheese area is but make sure that area hasn't tweaked your chassis.

 

You noticed that too??????

 

I agree with both sides of the argument. The motor will never be anything but a flathead as long as I live/own the car, so the "more horsepower" issue warrants boxing it. However, I understand that it's old, and probably had a lot of hard miles on it, so it may need a little structural help. I'm going to put it on screw jacks today and measure it out for square/level to see how straight it actually is.

IF I decide to box it, has anyone used this kit?

http://www.wolfesmetalfabrication.com/3540fordboxingplates.html

I see that he introduced his kits here quite a few years ago so I'm guessing there's some first-hand opinions on them by now?

 

first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title.....wasn't it bluebeard

 

I believe it was BLUEBEAR,what a maroon.

The 35 to 4o frames really don't need boxing with a flathead. HRP

 

OK....I give up. Who or what is this blackbeard, bluebeard or bluebear of which you speak?

Lynn

 

Nope if the frame has got everything in place you should be good to go.

 

No one has mentioned the Fact that the Frame is already a Double rail frame as in a frame inside a frame. If that part is all healthy and you think about it, it's already Boxed just not on the inboard edge. Adding more is a waste of time.
The Wizzard

 

The '35-'40 frame is a vast improvement in strength and rigidity over earlier frames, unfortunately Ford failed to reverse the flanges on the X member so the front and rear legs could form actual "boxing plates", as it is those front and rear legs fit down inside the frame which lends almost no strength to twisting but the two layers of metal provide an outstanding place for rust to start. If the web of your frame is bubbled from rust between the layers the only solution is to disassemble the frame, sandblast and repair the frame rails then re-assemble.

 

https://speedsociety.com/american-hot-rod-boyd-coddington/

 

My experience with my 34. Built the first time in 55/56 with four Stromberg/cam DeSoto hemi, the coupe was weighing in at the bottom of the "B" Gas Class, cranking on 104 with a 13.0 e.t. Campaigned all threw out the PNW for quite a few years.
I rebuilt it starting in '95 and was totally amazed to find the frame had never been boxed. Not only that but some dumb ass cut the transmission cross member out, (left the tail shaft waving in the wind), when removing the hemi that he bought the car for and installed a 302/ four speed, (with the tail shaft STILL waving in the wind.) Well I fully expected to find that it was so far out of square, (rack) and twisted that it would need a lot of work or replacement. Again to my surprise it was less than a quarter inch out of rack and no twist. The car has always been driver and from what I can find out it had bee that way for some 10 years or so. Having been a shop ironworker, fitter/welder for my early life it was no challenge to just get-er-done. If it took all that with the DeSoto, I'm sure yours can get by without boxing.
It might be nice though for the next guy that wants to drop a monster motor in it. Hope that helps you some.

 

you would be wasting time and money boxing a 39 frame to stick a stock or hot flattie back in it. The chassis will be absolutely fine. even with a mild sbc it would be absolutely fine.

 

If I was damn sure that I'd never put anything in the car more powerful than a flathead in it, all I'd do is cut out that area you mentioned was "swiss cheesed" and weld in some good metal there. Then treat the whole thing to a good cleaning and rustproof paint like POR15 or similar. But do pay close attention to the sandwiched areas as mentioned in post #19.

 

If its apart and stripped down and has a rusty spot, and you're asking the question, why not just go ahead and do it? Might not NEED to be done, but then its out of the way, you don't have to worry, and if you go with a big motor some other day one step is already finished

 

Another thing...by '39 the body, especially cowl and rear body, added substantial stiffness.
On the '34 mentioned, I believe the X member was not a full-length frame doubler as in '35 up Fords.

 

Can you do the work yourself? (Stupid question but I have to ask)
What’s the kit you posted worth?
Does not look to difficult to make those pieces yourself either.

If it were me, ( and it’s not) I would box it, it’s an 80 year old frame that’s been beat down, probably fixed and welded along the way, needs some “Swiss cheese “ fixed anyways. It’s safer, better and you know it’s done.

A screaming motor might fall in your lap one day and flathead be damn! You’ll stuff some horse power between those frame rails.

Just food for thought.

 

Remember hindsight is 20/20 . If you ever detonate that block then what are you going to do? Do it now while it is easy and then you have stought chassis and no future worries. Being reactive instead of proactive will have old Murphy's law laughing long and loud at you.

 

For what it is worth, Bruce, the 33/34 frames do have the x member legs extending forward and rearward to strengthen the frame. At least as far as the front and rear crossmembers, beyond at the front, not sure at the rear. (Would have to look). The inner channel fits snug against the outer rail.
The 35-40 frames are slightly better as the two channels, although not reversed to create a box like on the 42 up frames, the two walls are about 1/4" apart, which may increase stiffness.

Mart.

 

Bluebear ( Chad Geary) was a kid that was offered a free ride that he could build in Coddingtons shop but the only stipulation was the Model A frame had to be boxed for safety sake, he refused to do it and lost the free car & his smart mouth cost him his job, I don't speak ill of the dead and wasn't a huge fan of BC but he built some nice cars before he got famous.

Someone gonna to pay for my car & I'll build it like they want. HRP

 

This. They call him the Wizzard for good reason.