Projects 1964 Rambler Classic 660

So far you seem to be doing everything right. You have cleaned the car, saved anything that might be a car part even if it doesn't look it, you have got the manual and mapped out a plan to get it running and on the road.

Too bad the engine is seized, this is unusual for an engine with that many miles. O well you play the hand you are dealt.

With the valve cover off you can check for stuck valves very easily. Squirt some oil around the valve stems and tap the end of the rocker arm lightly with a small hammer. It should bounce off with a *boing*. If it goes thud the valve is stuck. In that case a shot of penetrating oil and a few taps with a hammer will usually set it free. You may have to pry the spring up once or twice. Be careful the piston is not on TDC when you do this or you could bend the valve.

As far as getting the engine to turn over you have gotten some good advice. If it does not turn with a little effort after soaking a week something is seriously wrong, and it is time to take the head off and investigate further. You could have a cylinder completely rusted up, there could be a mouse nest in there, who knows.

 

Either of these, depending on where you can get access to the teeth on the ring gear. You can generate a lot more torque by prying a bit on the ring gear teeth than you'll ever be able to apply to the damper bolt. F&J Has a great point about making sure the valves aren't stuck. Based on how it looks under the valve cover I'd bet they're OK, but a little tap with a hammer on the top of each rocker arm over the valve stem should confirm that. You'll be able to tell by the sound. It looks like you may have removed the adjusters from the rocker arms, in which case all of the valves should be closed. That motor looks pretty clean for one it's age, very little sludge at all under that valve cover.

Good luck with it.

 

If you have removed the rocker arms or valve actuators, then all valves should be closed. You can help the penetrating oil get were it needs to go by taking a spark plug and knocking the center out of it and welding an air chuck into it and applying air pressure to the cylinder. If you can determine which cylinder is at 1/2 stroke, it may even help turn the engine over.



Bones

 

You can do same thing with a compression tester just remove the valve core if you have one

 

That’s a great idea with the spark plug I was wondering how I’d get air in the cylinders!


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I’ve taken a hammer and piece of wood and knocked on each valve. They all seem to be free.


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It’s a uni body but the uni frame is narrow enough to sit inside the panthers platforms I think.


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I’m really interested in what your saying about breaking the engine loose while in tow. Also I still don’t have it on stands yet. Could the trans be Engaged or malfunctioning causing the engine to seem locked up?


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Also thanks for appreciating the patina and the condition of the interior. I plan on keeping the patina as is no mater what direction I take the vehicle.


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The idea of towing the car to get the engine to turn over only works on automatic transmission cars that have a rear pump. On a 1964 car, that should be the case, but you would need to get it up to about 30 mph. If it don't break loose, it could get ugly.

 

Personally I think trying to free a stuck engine by towing it is a crude way to do it and risks serious internal damage to engine components. As for the transmission having having a problem that causes it to prevent engine crankshaft rotation, I think that is extremely unlikely.

 

Towing only works with a manual trans or some early automatics with a rear pump. I was thinking, if it was a manual trans, put it in 2nd and push back and forth by hand. This will not work with your car as it is an automatic.

It should come free fairly easily. If not you have a serious problem. In fact I think you have a serious problem anyway for 2 reasons.

1 the engine has over 90 thousand miles on it, it should not seize up from sitting as there is plenty of clearance everywhere.
2 you live in a dry climate, you should be able to park a car for 50 years and the engine not rust up

My suspicion is, there is a mouse nest in a cylinder or the previous owner blew the engine that is why it was sitting.

If the engine is a wreck this would be a good candidate for a Chev V8.

 

Yes I’ve been thinking about a small block Chevy since that’s what I have experience with 305 or a 350. I read about other options such as 4.0 from an early Jeep. And every one keeps referencing a 327 option but haven’t put any research into it yet.


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The 327 was the AMC V8 of that era. While working on Police cars for the city of Muskogee , in about 1970, I had a Rambler come in with a problem, I was informed it had a “327” in it. I was expecting to see a Chevy engine in that car when I raised the hood, as the 327 Chevy was still kinda new and popular in 1970. But what I found was an AMC V8, with a Holley carburetor. Fixed the problem and took it for a test drive (18 year old mechanic in a police car). I was impressed with that AMC 327.
If your six is junk, look for a AMC donor car with a 327. I think you will like it. And it will be different, kinda.




Bones

 

subscribed .... yeah I admit a 63 rambler being the first car I owned and was old enough to drive ... first was a 57 dodge and I was 13.

63 rambler bathtub 4 door, paid $65 for it from a lady on my paper route. Needed a new clutch pressure plate and of course has a closed driveline.
I left the old throwout bearing, could not figure out how to change it, figured was not important anyways.
That ol rambler was a runner and a good little car, screaming throwout and all.
Great little motors.
easy to work on
great date cars with the fold down front seat ..... what were the engineers thinking?
#1 reason I like ramblers, they are only car that is more homely then my dodge.

 

In 64 they offered optional 287 and 327 V8s for your car, either would bolt in. The Jeep six is way longer than the Rambler six and would be a real pain to squeeze in. No reason to bother with it.

The AMC V8 would be the easiest swap if you could find one. As you know by now the six was a bit of a hodge podge and not very desirable unless you are crazy for originality. I wouldn't take it out if it was running good, or could be put back in commission easily but if it has serious problems I would go for a better engine.

 

Not quite sure that is an accurate statement. The fabulous 4.0L Jeep engine is a derivative, though greatly improved,
of the 199,232,258 AMC engine line. Th 4.0's fit in generally the same space And in some applications, were fitted with shorter front end accessories....(either the Wrangler or Cherokee, I think the latter. Dagnabbit, I should know , having rebuilt many of each). In any case, the 4.0 HO '91 to 2001, are excellent engines, 190 horsepower and durable as an anvil. A good friend swapped one into his Gremlin including the EFI. A two wheel drive Cherokee would be an excellent donor vehicle...the Asin/Warner 4 speed/OD automatic is non-computer, the rear axle assy is Mopar 8.25" (should be 3.55 in that application), 5x4.5" bolt circle. And it's all in the family...

 

If you do decide to swap out the old six, keep in mind that these cars have a torque tube and coil spring rear suspension which will limit you to old AMC engines and transmissions or a lot of fabrication.

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I really like the fact that the Cherokee’s run between $800-1500 bucks on Craigslist. Awesome Thanks


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I would be intimidated with doing as open drive rear end swap on a unibody car. The thought of making control arm mounts scares me since I don't have a hoist and hate welding on my back in close quarters.

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The Jeep six as you point out, is a development of the new engine they introduced in 1966. It definitely fits AMC producst 1966 up, before that not so sure. The 196 was much smaller and shorter being a long stroke small bore design. I have the idea the newer six is too long but can't prove it offhand.

There is room for a small V8 as they were designed for one.

 

Have you gotten positioned to try and turn the flywheel by prying/turning the teeth of the flywheel with a big screw driver or straight tire iron yet? (remove starter if closed bell housing?)
...the bar you talked about mounting on the crank could work too with enough leverage to jounce it back and fourth a bit or even using the jack like you said could be good too.....a little creativity goes a long way sometime rather than be too scared to try anything, a little research like this also helps too before you jump into something

 

You make a good point and given my lack of experience trying to do a swap like that is probably way outa my league. It would be nice to own a car lift though. Be fun for oil changes!


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No I haven’t tried turning by the fly wheel yet. I fabricated that bracket to mount to the balancer I had mentioned but didn’t have much luck. The engine started lifting from its mounts. After further inspection I did get oh .0800” a little more than 1/16” of play in it. But nothing to call it a success. I pulled off the water pump and inside the passage ways of the engine are nice and clean no rust even had antifreeze in it not that that means anything. Today I’m going to pull the starter and probably go get the tool for cranking on the flywheel and a puller for the balancer.


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You might want to consider getting a borescope attachment for a smartphone (if you have a smartphone; I still use a Tracfone). I think they're pretty cheap, and they allow you to look down into the cylinders to examine their condition.

 

This may be the smartest idea so far. I have seen boroscopes in parts stores, they are not that expensive anymore, less than a gasket set.

 

Well looks like today’s the day I’m pulling the head off. The borescope was a good idea but didn’t end up purchasing one. Pulling the head off seems pretty straight forward. I guess I’ll find out.


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Smart move, they have been known to lead to much world corruption.

 

No luck turning I assume? Or did you try turning the flywheel?