I'm in the planning phase of swapping my (broken) Saginaw 4spd over to a Muncie 4spd in my '63 Belair. My car was not originally a floor shift car. I plan to weld in the proper floor 'blister' where the shifter passes through the floor, especially because the hole there now is a total hack job. My question, although maybe a stupid one is...do the shifters pass through the floor in the same spot as each other? I ask because I know there is a different shifter installation kit required for the Muncie vs. the Saginaw and I would hate to find out, after I weld, that I should have moved it. I imagine they are 'close' to being the same, but are they exactly the same? And, yes...I will put up some cardboard to protect the interior before I make sparks.
Somewhere on the net there is a page that shows a Saginaw and Muncie 4 speed with measurements that you need. If I wasn't looking for it it would pop right up.
I mounted a B&M, series 60 shifter, between the front seat and door..."backward"... in the 61 Impala that I built. Pissed off the guy at the smog station (back in the days of running the tires on the rollers). Sorry...you're talking a 4spd. shifter..! Mike
When I did the one in my '62, I was going column to floor, 3 to 4sp (Muncie). It was out of a Chevelle with the Hurst already mounted so the hole was cut accordingly. I do remember having to shorten the driveshaft an inch or two.
I swapped out the Saginaw for a Muncie in my old 48 GM sedan many years ago and from memory both Hurst shifters fitted the same hole in the floor. I don't recall modifying the floorpan at all when I intalled the Muncie?
Not specific to above quote or the OP's original question; just passing on some things that I know about these Chevy's. I did the same thing to my 64 using a 69 Muncie and as I said in the 62, 63, 64 Chevy thread, the earlier cars require a specific shift lever on the transmission side cover compared to the 69. This is important when using the early oem shifter, even Hurst has seperate installation kits between the two eras. Check out the Google search below. To help with any searches make sure to use the word "hump" instead of "blister", you will have better results, and by the way when I did my 64 in the 80's I didn't know if there was a hump or not, still not sure, but I never used one and it still looked factory. One more thing is the carpeting on cars with a four speed hump will be formed specifically to fit the hump correctly regardless of oem or reproduction. My car retained the column shift application carpeting. I didn't spend much time looking through this 63/64 search but you should find your answer here, the problem is there are also 65/up so a little weeding out will be needed. Google images: https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=752&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=GRzyW4q6HoSvjwSZ1IfYCA&ins=false&q=1963,+1964+impala+four+speed+shifter+hump&oq=1963,+1964+impala+four+speed+shifter+hump&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-img.3...10664.18137..26416...0.0..0.223.1278.0j7j2......0....1.h8GT6PSzEKI As an example the 66 Novas' were fitted with either a Saginaw or Muncie depending on engine, these cars have a floor hump either way and the shifter comes through the hump and/or console in the same position except the Saginaw has an intermediate mounting plate whereas the shifter for the Muncie uses round spacers which go between the shifter body and the cast in bosses on the tailhousing. The difference between the Nova and the early big cars (Impala, BelAir, etc.) as well as the Chevelles is the Nova shifter requires much shorter rods.
61 to 63 full size Chevrolets with a 4 speed came with a T-10 Borg Warner trans and I believe an Inland Manufacturing Shifter. This was also known as the spaghetti stick shifter. Round handle approximately 3/4" diameter at the base and tapering to 3/8". The shifter boot has a round hole and so does the shifter tunnel hump. All Muncies, Saginaws and T-10s are the same length but not all Hurst shifters mount exactly in the same spot, or exactly match the Inland shifter. You could check reproduction sources for a shifter tunnel hump for a 64 as they did use a Muncie 4 speed. But unless your Hurst is specifically designed as a direct replacement for a 64 and not just a generic Competition Plus you still may have issues. Its best just to get the trans and shifter installed before any welding is done.
I knew the 62's were T-10's, not positive about this but I recall that the Muncie MAY have been issued mid/late 63. I can say I never saw any 63's with the larger Inland reverse lever style shifter. Just for giggles I enlarged the OP's photo and it sure looks like the shifter is the oem equipped round bar Hurst unit from the late 60's. Thought I would mention that many of the floor humps have contours formed in them and generally will only fit where they want to match up to the transmission tunnel. I installed an original four speed hump in my 67 Nova that I cut out of another Nova and it needed to be installed exactly the way it wanted to be to lay down right. Also, there are brands of reproduction shifter humps that fit better than others.
DDDenny, you are correct in that late 63, the Muncie 4 speed became available. The first load arrived on Feb. 6th 1963 at the Baltimore assembly plant for installation in full size only. Not all plants received them and Corvettes did not get them until much later. Most 63's did receive T-10s with some getting a Muncie. Production was not an immediate change over as T-10's were installed at the same time as Muncie's, until Muncie production ramped up. There were also teething problems with the new trans with several changes made with the 64 model. I have seen a GM TSB authorizing a switch to a T-10 and shifter for a warranty claim due to the lack of availability. I also don't know what these Muncie's used as a shifter, but I suspect it was a Muncie version of the spaghetti stick and not the Hypodermic needle 64 version.
FWIW the Muncie I mentioned earlier was out of a '72 bench seat Chevelle. My '62 was bench also and the shifter worked fine with no seat clearance issues. They do make a period correct 'bolt-on' shift handles now for the Comp-Plus.
Another heads up. When I finally got mine finished, I was ready to put the final touches to it. Got a nice boot, placed it just right. Got out the drill and promptly put about a 12" runner in the new red loop carpet. I damn near cried... Be sure you slice/cut to clearance for the boot screws if you're running loop carpet.
DOH! Now you know how your wife feels when she gets a snag in a brand new pair of expensive pantyhose. I've had pretty good luck by putting a small slit at the drill location in the carpet and inserting a short piece of drinking straw through the slit and use it as a drill guide.
I don't have any floor advice but put me in the "...get the trans and shifter 1st..." line. On the carpet, heat is your friend. Not too much heat, but the right kind in the right places. For drilling and or marking, use your propane or MAPP gas torch and a scratch awl. Get the awl good and hot, almost red, and simply press through your boot bezel to melt right through. This will also seal the edges so it won't fray when you run the screws in either. Carpet around the new "hump", heat is once again your friend. If you have a heat gun you want to warm the carpet, a lot, almost too hot to touch on the backing. Again, not too much as most heat guns get hot enough to light a cigarette, but enough to let it mold itself to your new floor. Obviously you'll want it all in place and secured everywhere except the driver's side so you can raise it up and heat it. Once you've 'molded' the carpet to the floor wet it with cold water and your new shape will freeze into place. Have fun, it's not as tough or tricky as it may seem.
Then why do they scream bloody murder? It's not the embarrassment, it's the cost and work that pisses off men.
Just an suggestion,Don't weld the "hump " in bolt it in. Makes it a whole easier if have to take out trans. And this don't help you much, but when i changed from Saginaw to Muncie, i did have to Adjust the hole some what.But what it was, i can't remember. Sorry.
I've had to "fudge" a couple of shifters forward on the mounts before, one was to adjust the seat up on a Nova so my wife could reach the pedals, its pretty easy to do, the shifter only needs to rotate slightly on the mounting bolt, no need to relocate the whole shifter body forward. Just disconnect the rods/levers from the shifter, take out the large center bolt, loosen the small bolt slightly and rotate shifter ahead 1/2-3/4" by pivoting on the small bolt, put a transfer punch in the larger hole in the shifter body and mark the new forward location on the mount. In my case there was enough threads on the rods to adjust accordingly. Notice the mount on mine did not have enough material to simply drill and tap the new hole because it was right on the edge so I just made a threaded weld bung to weld in. Also note in these photos that it was returned to the original location due to a change of handles, getting a custom shifter handle to clear a Nova console can be tricky.
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