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Hot Rods Diesel oil in gasoline engines?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Flatheadjohn47, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. FEA1AB78-C298-43DB-814B-DD8554D87B64.jpeg is oil designed for Diesel engines safe and o.k. For useage in earlier Gasoline v8 engines that frequently see 5500 rpm on the street. I am particularly enamored with Ford’s flathead v8!
     
  2. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,245

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Do a search, it's been discussed at length. Within that search you'll find comments by member "blues4you" (or 4u?) that's spot on and worth every minute of your time. Search using the word "Rotella". Have fun...
     
  3. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 6,830

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    I used Rotella in my off topic Ford 302 work van. Used it because it was a high mileage engine for the zinc. After some time the oil pan gasket leaked like a sprinkler. The detergents in that oil must really clean up the sludge inside a engine. Went back to reg oil, and leaks went back to what was normal. After 392k miles, my pan gasket has went through a lot of heat cycles.
     
  4. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,661

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I think it's ok. I've read so many threads on oil I finally gave up. Now when I do an oil change I put in a quart of Rotella, a quart of Brad Penn, a quart of VR1, a squirt of Lucas ZDDP and top it off with whatever's left on the shelf. An oil change cocktail, hold the olives. I know, there's probably something wrong with that too..

    One thing I know for sure, diesel FUEL in gas engines is not good. I've tested it...
     

  5. Ralphies54
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 772

    Ralphies54
    Member

    Blowby, you made my day.:p:p Ralphie
     
  6. Slopok
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,919

    Slopok
    Member

    No oil produced will keep a Flathead together at that RPM for any length of time!:eek:
     
  7. Chuck Craig
    Joined: Jun 11, 2016
    Posts: 280

    Chuck Craig
    Member
    from Ocala FL

    I have been using Royal Purple 15w 40w diesel oil in all my normal engines for over 12 years without any issues, but have not had any of the oil analyzed. I even use it in my lawn mower and pressure washer. Every engine that I have torn down has been clean without any buildup at all. Put over 80k miles on my 39 Truck (SB V-8) and it ran good, no smoke, and no unusual leaks.
     
    loudbang and Hnstray like this.
  8. 266500AB-B3CE-462E-BB59-118A3DE9C53E.jpeg I did not say I run the engine to 5500 and hold it there,but instead run it up to 5500 regularly and then grab another gear and do this quite often and regularly! I know Diesel engines run a relatively low rpm(generally under 3000 rpm) and used the 5500 only in comparison!
     
    loudbang likes this.
  9. Torana68
    Joined: Jan 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,415

    Torana68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Australia

    Same answer as Slopok , unless your spending lots of $$$ with a flathead expert, stock bottom end won’t take that.
     
    Slopok likes this.
  10. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 6,830

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    And, on the flip side putting gas in a diesel engine; don't even want to know the results of that. Use to get a rise out of my previous employer(contractor), would say that we need to stop and gas up the skid loader:eek: he would say, DIESEL not GAS!! every time.
     
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  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The wife's German road missile redlines at 5000rpm, and it is a diesel.

    It runs 26psi of boost in sport-mode, and sees that redline regularly.
     
  12. You can’t use diesel oil in a gas engine
    It has built in rev limiting molecules
     
    Irish Mike, Just Gary, Jet96 and 14 others like this.
  13. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 6,540

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    My Father in-law swore by Delo oil in everything. Never had any issues. When he bought his new truck , I bought his old '93 and it just turned 114,000 original:D. So for being 25 years old you know it was rode hard and put up wet:D
     
    MUNDSTER likes this.
  14. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,029

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    Why ?
    Must be some "oh-my-God", secret reason !?

    Mike
     
  15. Raunchy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2007
    Posts: 379

    Raunchy
    Member

    I run Mobil DelVac 10 w 40 in all my old stuff. It's cheap and good and has proven to be to be good in the Long Term. Mobil 1 in my new stuff. I think oil is one of the most over thought car products made. Pick a name brand that makes you feel warm and fuzzy stay away from dollar store oil. Change it on a regular schedule with a quality filter, keep the stick on full and you will be good. It is all basically made from the same base with just different additives. I have run all the modern oils under the sun and haven't seen much difference in the new oils unlike the old days. I don't like synthetic in older motors. These are just my opinions. You are welcome to yours.
     
    clem and MUNDSTER like this.
  16. no55mad
    Joined: Dec 15, 2006
    Posts: 1,956

    no55mad
    Member

    Read ZDDPlus website information on this subject. They are an 'Alliance Vendor' here.
     
  17. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    In short, the answer is Yes. It is safe.

    In fact it is my preference in older (pre-catalytic converter) engines. Previous to about 2010 there was a concern with the higher levels of sulfated ash in diesel engine oils, that can lead to piston deposits. But since then the API has limited SA level to just 1%, about the same as gasoline engine oils from pre-smog era. So that is no longer a concern. But if you are using it for the higher level of zinc than you need to read the label for the API licensing.

    Since Jan 1 of 2017 a new API service classification (CK-4) for heavy duty diesel engine oils has been in place, and with that new classification came new rules for those oils that carry a dual license, i.e. CK-4 & SN. The new rule states that dual licensed oils must meet the limits on zinc placed on SN licensed oils, or 800 ppm. Previous to this, dual licensed products were allowed to have higher levels of zinc, IF the label showed the C_ rating first (for instance CJ-4/SN, instead of SN/CJ-4). But auto manufacturers did not like that, because of the potential of fouling catalytic converters if used in cars, so they forced the API to make this change with the new service classification. If the label shows CK-4 ONLY, then it is allowed to have a higher level of zinc, up to 1200 ppm, which IMO is sufficient for the vast majority of flat tappet engines. So read the label, or google search for the tech data sheet, and see what it says. Some of the common diesel engine oils that people know the names of have changed and no longer have higher levels of zinc. Delo 400 for instance is a dual licensed product, it has no more than 800 ppm of zinc. Shell has so many versions of Rotella, some are dual licensed, some are not, you really have to look them up to see.

    Beyond higher zinc level, HDDEO's typically have higher treat rates of detergents and dispersants (they will really keep your engine clean inside), better ability to neutralize acids and control corrosion, better heat resistance, and more shear resistance viscosity index improvers. Current multi-grade diesel engine oils, CJ-4 or CK-4, are light years advanced compared to the gasoline engine oils that were available when classic cars were new.
     
  18. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,245

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    See what I mean? You rock blues...:cool:
     
    Blues4U likes this.
  19. Slopok
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,919

    Slopok
    Member

    My answer still remains the same, they make maximum horse power & torque at 3600 RPM, why go any higher? :confused: You're not gonna beat anybody with a Flathead!:rolleyes:
     
  20. Another flathead?
     
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  21. dan c
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,520

    dan c
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    i used rotella once; no harm. i've heard that the zinc content ain't what it used to be!
     
  22. @Blues4U . my engine builder recommended using honda gn4 10-40 motorcycle oil in his rebuilds. he says the oil is used in both the gear box and engine on the bikes and see very high rpm's. also it has lots of zddp. would you know if this stuff is as good as he says?
     
  23. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 6,709

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    With the required use of diesel particulate filters, or DPF's for short, zinc and ash levels in diesel oils were lowered to keep from clogging the DPF's. Oils that were fine for older diesels and gas engines were phased out in most cases and replaced with the new formulas. So while the new formulas still have some zinc in them, it is much less than the older formulations did. Not defending the oil companies for all the changes they make, just explaining that they are not always responsible for them, a lot of the time it's government emissions mandates and engine makers requirements that force them. Doesn't make it any easier on those of us with older engines though.
     
    classiccarjack likes this.
  24. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    I'm not familiar with that oil at all, so I just did a google search for information about it, found this info from Honda, which tends to emphasize low stress, low heat use, indicating to me it's not that robust of a product. For higher stress and higher temp use they recommend one of their other products. Of course, that may just be the marketing team trying to up-sell customers.
    https://motorcycle.honda.ca/Content...nericContent_FFH/oils-and-applications-en.pdf

    I did see where it is an SJ licensed oil, the API put a limit of 1000 ppm zinc for SJ licensed oils.

    4-stroke motorcycle engine oils in general are typically intended to lube the transmission in most modern motorcyles without a separate gear box. But that doesn't mean they have special anti-wear additives for that, engine oils have been used in many manual transmissions for many years. What it does mean is they have select lubricity additives to give wet clutches the correct frictional characteristics, so they don't slip under load. And they probably have good anti-foam chemistry to encourage the release of air.
     
  25. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Yes, but they still have around 1200 ppm of zinc, that's a pretty healthy level. Sufficient to protect heavy duty diesel engines operating under severe stress loads. And one of the most common diesel engines out there, the venerable B series Cummins, is still a flat tappet cammed engine. There is a specific tests for API licensing to evaluate wear on those tappets that the oil has to pass in order to be licensed. Plus wear tests on other components as well, rings & liners, valve train components, timing gears, etc.
     
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  26. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 6,709

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I agree, you have better insight on this topic than I do. I was just pointing out the engine companies set the specs for their engines, the oil companies just produce products that meet their specs. And the new emissions controls have changed the game for all of them.
     
    Blues4U likes this.
  27. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 31,178

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    yep
     
  28. fullhouse296
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 404

    fullhouse296
    Member
    from Australia

    Seen a good ,stock 313 poly dodge worn out totally with a month of regular driving ,using diesel detergent oil . we figured it loosened all the crap inside
     
  29. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,483

    deucemac
    Member

    I built the hemi in my avatar roadster almost 14 years ago and over 20k hot rodded miles on it. My cam broke in well and zero problems since. I use Shell Rotella in it and a couple of non hamb flat tappet cammer cars and all are living happily with it. I used Rotella from the moment they first started and don't intend to change to anything else.
     
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  30. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,906

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    My Big Block road race engine used to run Castrol CRF 40 weight diesel oil in a dry sump system.
    My engine builder told me to do this and I didn't believe him , so I phoned Castrol myself
    This was also the recommendation of Castrol .

    I used to twist it up to 8000 rpm and it was nearly always above 5500 rpm.

    With a street engine, run a multi-grade [my race engine had a regimented warm procedure]
     
    deucemac likes this.

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