Projects 1930 Plymouth U project

Good morning,

I wanted to go ahead and start a thread about the Sedan that I acquired recently.

Drivetrain: I have the original flathead 4, tranny, and rear-end, but at some point someone shoehorned a Datsun L16 motor between the frame-rails using the stock motor mounts. It accommodates what I believe are the original juice brakes and steering box. Both of those systems are in good shape with new brake hoses, and rebuild master/slave cylinders.

Rear axle: stock standard, Mopar rearend. looks like it is a 3rd member-type of setup?

Interior: mostly complete. Missing a few handles. Glass is mostly good. have a stock dash that looks to be uncut. Fire-wall/floorboard is missing and a plywood replacement partially covers engine area. Seats are definitely going to get tossed in lieu of a couple buckets up front and a larger more comfortable bench in the rear. I'm thinking of looking for seats from a Chrysler/jeep/dodge rig.

Exterior: This rig is full-fendered, straight and complete. roof panel and sun visor vinyl are a bit worn-out but that's an easy fix in the scheme of things.

Here's a few pics I have so far:

 

So, for my questions, I should probably mention my intention for this build. Per my name, this, like all my builds, will be low-buck, but never at the expense of safety. Modern 12v lights, modern, well-maintained brakes (disc front/drum rear), a solid steering system, and comfy/modern seats and restraints are all non-negotiable. For the transmission, I'm honestly, still deciding on something like a Muncie M21 or a 727/904/TH350. This is going to be a cruiser for date night, pie runs up to the local hills, a hot rod night runner, and a sunday "distrupt the early service" church vehicle for my family. Stoplight racing and informal stupidity will likely be on the menu.

that being said, here's some of my questions:
1. Flathead 4 seems to be in good shape, but it also seems like a real tough mill to find parts for. Correct? I'm told it runs, but I haven't tried it out.
2. The Datsun L16 motor that is "somewhat" installed, from my research, is a GREAT motor, but obviously a bit odd for this application. thoughts?
3. I feel like I could easily go SBC, or 318/360, using a kit from Butch's Cool stuff, but I'm not sure what would be best. (I don't really care about Mopar in mopar. I want it cheap, easy to work on and reliable)
4. Wood wheels - these are getting tossed/sold. What is the easiest way to convert to standard, stock steel 15/16" rims? Can I put new spindles on the front? I have a line on a 55 Chevy front end...Would I then get something like an S10 rear-end to match the 5x4.75 bolt pattern?
5. Window glass. I need one. local shop the best way to go?
6. Front floorboards/firewall - mine are partial and made of plywood. Will I have to fab this panel? or Do companies sell sheetmetal to at least get me close to what I'd need? (I can cut/weld/mildly shape most mild steel projects.
6. etc, etc...I have many more questions, but that's a good start.

 

I've had quite a few 29-30 Mopars. some were hotrods and a 32 Ply 4cyl...


1. Flathead 4 seems to be in good shape, but it also seems like a real tough mill to find parts for. Correct? I'm told it runs, but I haven't tried it out.
Yes parts are available, but that 4 won't do what you want.

2. The Datsun L16 motor that is "somewhat" installed, from my research, is a GREAT motor, but obviously a bit odd for this application. thoughts?
I have No experience with that motor, so I can't say. But if it has enough power/torque and is installed decently, and fits well...???? Then match the right rear end ratio to use it.

3. I feel like I could easily go SBC, or 318/360, using a kit from Butch's Cool stuff, but I'm not sure what would be best. (I don't really care about Mopar in mopar. I want it cheap, easy to work on and reliable) Between those two choices, I'd say stock SBC with the earlier shorter water pump is more cost saving, or measure the total length of a 318 to make sure it can fit as good as SBC


4. Wood wheels - these are getting tossed/sold. What is the easiest way to convert to standard, stock steel 15/16" rims? Can I put new spindles on the front? I have a line on a 55 Chevy front end...Would I then get something like an S10 rear-end to match the 5x4.75 bolt pattern?
Never even think of 55 chevy car front end, I hope you aren't thinking car front end? I am guessing you are wondering about swapping just the spindles from a 55 pickup axle?? I doubt they can work on that front axle. You can use the stock front axle and spindles, but you are going to need to machine the wheel bearing snout to do disc brakes because the snout is quite long. I suppose trial and error could find a rotor to work without machining, but for low budget, see if some company still has the correct rubber front brake hose with the huge thread size they have, then use the stock front brakes, BUT, the wood wheel drums need to be swapped to same age MOPAR wire wheel drums that may be very hard to find.


5. Window glass. I need one. local shop the best way to go?
Local glass shop here that does mostly no car work was dirt cheap for flat saftey glass. Ask around your area.


6. Front floorboards/firewall - mine are partial and made of plywood. Will I have to fab this panel? or Do companies sell sheetmetal to at least get me close to what I'd need? (I can cut/weld/mildly shape most mild steel projects
Wood floor was stock. You can use wood, but if the new trans needs a tunnel that prevents flat floor, then fab a steel one

 

Wow! thanks so much for the info. Much appreciated.

Also, found one more pic of the overall rig:

Full.profile by Lowbuckbuilder posted Oct 18, 2018 at 9:41 AM

 

Mmmm....no photo.

 

What you can do with a PA. But a 32 PB is a much better place to start. If you plan a driver I would stick with thw Nissian or go with a end to end modern drivetrain

 

I just re-read that the car already has new brake hoses, rebuilt cylinders and good steering...That makes me think it was recently a road driver. If you are new to the "snowball effect"of trying to modernize these early cars, and if you don't expect to travel cross country?...>>> If the wood wheels are in good shape, I'd see if that Datsun is a good runner and if it had an overdrive, it will be a good easy project that won't get abandoned if you get in too deep.

If you use it a year or so, and still like it, then you can still "plan up".

I hate to see people get in over your head, with good intentions.

.

 

go for the 318!

 

Attempting another photo upload:

 

This is good advice. I did a 55 into a 47 motor swap on my last ride, but I'm honestly looking for input on all my options.

 

Why is the 55 front end no good?
For spindles, i’m looking for any solution at this point, since i cant find much on the subject at all through searching.

 

Because you said earlier about the 55 chevy front end having 4-3/4 pattern, that must be a car, not the 55 truck I beam with 6 lug wheels. Let me be blunt here ... Even if you could graft a 55 chevy car front end under there...it would be a mess. look like crap and be almost insanity to find a steering box to make it steer.

Ok, here is just about the same chassis you have in these pics taken around 1980. I built this car from random junk body parts left over from restorers. It is a 1930 Desoto model K, but looks like a 29 with the thin radiator shell.

This car has the stock I beam and spindles, springs leaves removed to get it a lot lower than stock. I did not have a lathe back then as a young guy, but a guy in our hotrod club hooked me up with a local retired machinist that needed a tailpipe for his 68 Chevy pickup and was too disabled to do the work, or pay a shop ...so I traded him... I bought the pipe and put it on, and he machined down my 1930 spindles to work with 69-70 Dart disc brakes.

I then welded up simple thick steel brackets that bolted to some of the original backing plate holes.
The owner of ECI brakes in Vernon CT is in that same rod club, (he was just starting the ECI company), and he is probably the person who told me the disc brakes could work on my spindles.


Then I added a 69 Dart 8-3/4 posi rear to match that 4" bolt pattern. I used that very narrow rear end so I could run deep dish chrome reverse wheels, and have them sit under the fender lips, not sticking out .

Pics below show 3 rods that showed up at our Clubs summer picnic on a river campsite. The 32 Ford in the middle was the late Bob Juliano's, (owner of Juliano's Interior Products) the T was 348 Chevy powered. One pic shows my car at the old Sturbridge, Mass mini-nats. I sold it in 1985, and built more cars. It was too breezy/cold to drive year round. It had a 327 4 speed, with a 605 Saginaw power steering box, with "cross steer", not side steer like was stock

The next car I did was a stock 32 Plymouth PB convertible coupe. I sent the bare block out to bore it 30 over, got new pistons from Egge in Cal, then did the rest of the rebuild myself. But the rear end ratio prevented the car from staying out of peoples way, with their fast driving. I should have put better gears in, as I would probably still own it now.

So, there you have it...yes you can keep it mostly stock with better gears...or...do what I did to the DeSoto. Your choice, for your skill set.

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Thanks for detailed reply, Frank. Very much appreciate it. Love the Desoto, and that's pretty much my thought with this build, that I'll re-use and retain what I can and innovate/deviate when I need to.

Understood on the Chevy setup. Was just reading about the possibility of grafting Ford spindles onto my Dodge axle, too.

 

Has anyone had experience with drilling out the original drums/hubs to fit steel wheels? Is there a writeup somewhere?

 

Some more pics:

Datsun motor. Seeminly good shape, fires right up, has pretty good power, might look pretty good dressed/cleaned up a bit.


Brake master with newer switch:


Clutch master, i believe:


Front passenger brake (with new hoses evident)

 

We are not supposed to discuss modern motors like that...

I'd try driving the car and see if it will work in your area for speeds.

I'd drive it as a daily!!

I will try to look at a wood wheel drum here. I am not sure if you can redrill to a normal wheel pattern, "If" the back part of the hub is not the correct shape. I just don't recall seeing anyone doing it on a wood wheel drum.

By the way, yes that is the original 31 Master cylinder, BUT it was never on the firewall. It was down low, as the pedal cluster used to be under the floor. The builder moved it, but those two long bolts with weld globs on that plate looks a bit sketchy?? Make sure that master is not flexing/moving if someone steps on the brake while you watch it. It looks like they welded nuts?
.
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The motor is from about 1969, as far as I can tell from the numbers...that's considered modern? (not trying to be snarky, honestly asking...) and yeah, I honestly haven't decided what engine I'll go with. I very much want to get it out on the roads and see how she does, though, before I change too much of anything.

EDIT: just read back through the board rules/regs. and had an AHA! moment. Pre-65 is the cut-off for this board, as I am understanding it? if so, GOT it. My future plans definitely include keeping to those standards. I'm looking at small block chevy and dodges, and I actually have a line on a flathead 6 from a 51 pickup at this point, too. all would be carb'd, traditional hod rod setups. And if I can get my brakes working correctly, I'd stick with drums there, too.

 

Here is a 30 U that has been worked over extensively but it's a nice ride.

 

Ok, see I LOVE that! thanks for posting, Coilover. Is there a build thread you could direct me to?

 

Well, been chattin’ up my dad in the last few weeks, about his time on the drag scene and his recommendation was SBC all the way. Sooo, picked up the likely candidate tonight.
1964 283 small block complete, in good shape with a set of “ram’s horn” manifolds which should help a lot with fitment issues.




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I will admit that while I know absolutely nothing about these cars, I do remember reading old magazine articles. This is from a 4 page article from the March 1978 issue of Street Rodder showing Pete Eastwood working on a '31 Plymouth PA coupe. Maybe Pete will respond to this.

 

That is the same early Dart/Duster 4 piston disc setup, and same rear end that I used in post 12 above. Same machining of the spindles, same type of caliper brackets that I made from steel.

.

 

Be advised, that Dart 4 piston stuff is kinda scarce now. As in, you're not walking into your local Napa and walking out with calipers and rotors. there are sources here; https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/widget-pages/home/

 

Probably going to go the scarebird route.


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That's what to be expected from a 40 year old article. I mainly wanted to show the use of the original axle being made lower since it is such a neat piece.

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Is the rest of that writeup on line somewhere goldmountain? I looked with no luck. Would like to read as I have a couple of the same cars.

 

Hello ski
I have scanned the entire article and tried to send it to you in a PM but I seem to have a glitch with my computer keyboard at the moment. Bear with me on this for now.

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I got pages 18 and 20.