reading here on HAMB , plus,looking at cast and forged I beam axle advertisements. Some are cast material. Some claim to be forged, no adds will say forged from what??? Only 1 exception and not a I beam, magnum says they use a seamless tube center with forged 1018 mild steel end pieces then welded. Are these supposedly forged I beam axles forged form a "steel casting" in a 1 hit forging die, or they hammered from bar stock i.e. many hits/ reheats/ and multiple dies. This has got me to thinking about the the repo "forged spindles" also. Are these 1 hit "formed "castings or, are they beat out the old way we think of forging back in Henry's day? The relativly low price of the "new" "forgings" makes me think there is a new method or a new definition of forging? Anyone?
hmmmm....I thought the whole point of casting was that the part is fully formed straight out of the die/mold, except for final machining. Is casting, then 'forging', a recognized manufacturing technique? Sounds dubious to me.
You talken original equipment axles as well as modern, or only modern ? This is like the statement...it's made of "aircraft aluminum". Just so much B.S. Aircraft from the beginning to today use almost every grade of aluminum that there is, even dead soft 1100 aluminum. Just buzz words. Curious about ol Henrys OEM axle material though..!? Mike
You can't "forge" cast iron. https://www.quora.com/Why-can-cast-iron-not-be-forged Ford started using Vandium steel in his forged axles in 1906. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3658/4284734 This tells more about the Vanadium axles Ford first made. http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/1909/1909_vol62_mtt_1959.pdf Vanadium steel is high carbon steel with other elements added as defined here. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/vanadium-steel Here's some good reading on various forging methods used today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging#Cold_forging This article suggests that in the early days rear axle shafts and crankshafts commonly broke.http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/475543.html?1409539618 Finally, better heat treating processes and a change in alloy composition, greatly improved product quality You can bet that Henry Ford did his best to cut manufacturing costs any way he could. HERE is an excellent HAMB thread on casting vs. forged axles and how each is made along with the attributes of each. You must read all of it to make your head swell with knowledge. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/axles-forged-vs-cast.495428/
I have sold many So-Cal forged axles with no problems. I am currently building a project with one of their forged 48 inch axles dropped an additional inch to 5 inches. They have this done in CA. If they weren't forged from quality steel I don't think it could have been re-dropped the additional inch. Call P&J's and ask them how it's done. They have resurrected the old CE axles which are forged in the US and have them on the market, along with their forged aluminum axle.
I would think the axle forging process is started with a blank, the blank is a piece of steel that has the rough shape of the desired item. Chrome Vanadium steel was mentioned above so let’s start with a piece of that, it could be flame cut from plate or cast steel. There are two reasons for forging the axle rather than just machining it from wrought steel. First, you can control the grain structure of the material with forging and that will enhance the strength of a component. Secondly, from a manufacturing standpoint forging will bring the part closer to net shape reducing machining time and naturally that is a cost savings. The rough blank is heated to make it more “plastic”, or able to be shaped easier in the forging dies, with a lower die bolted to the bed of the machine and the upper bolted to the ram, or hammer. With repeated “hits” of the hammer the blank takes on the desired shape. There is a draft angle in the die set, I think 7* is typical, and in the case of an I beam axle you can see that on the top and bottom flanges. The draft is needed to make the forging process easier, you cannot have no draft as that would make the part hard, if not impossible to release from the die set. When the forging is complete the next step is snag grinding. When forged some material of squeezed out of the dies, consider that if too little material was used the part might not be to the desired shape and size and on the other hand if too much is used it has to go some where with the result being ground off. Next would be heat treating operations to enhance the strength and/or relax stress put in during forging. If you have ever noticed a dimple on a forging that is a result of a Brinell test. A hardness checking instrument uses a steel ball and the desired load in kilograms to put an indent in the surface of the item tested and then the diameter of the impression is checked against a table of known standards to determine the hardness of the material. Any surfaces or holes that require precision will naturally be done after the above operations resulting in a finished part.
"T-5056 Aircraft Aluminum" I remember that one from camping gear companies and tent poles. Maybe MagLite flashlights. Now the buzzword has been downgraded. Ford, I think, says their trucks are made with "Military Grade" Aluminum. Hm.
I would like to have a dolla for every NOS part I see advertised... or every cruise nite clown that thinks any rod in primer is a rat... and the dipweed " '87 Malibu rod" guy. I would be buying all NOS stuff !
I recently had the need to modify the steering arm on a cast spindle by cutting a piece from another spindle, If either spindle was cast iron this would not work since I wasn't about to weld cast iron. They do make these spindles out of cast iron as well as cast steel. To determine what the spindles were made of I filed each with a sharp file. You can easily file the cast steel but cast iron is hard and the file will not easily cut it. Both spindles were cast steel. Now my hot rod turns corners without tire scrubbing. They do not make axles out of cast iron because it is brittle and would easily break. Now cast steel is different. Though not as tough as forged steel, a cast steel axle will flex and not break. You can safely use a cast steel axle on your car.
Really interesting video, thanks for posting. Here's a clip from the Austin factory in Longbridge UK from the 1930s. It shows the forging process later in the video. The thing that really struck me was that the only protective clothing that seemed to be required for the workers seemed to be a cloth cap.
They do indeed use cast iron, the axle above was new, broke in his driveway after the first drive. Avoid cast axles, you can buy forged axles and original axles why trust your life on something else? Yes people use them and they haven’t broken, what happens if it does?
That looks hideous. I don't have one of these axles, but having seen cast axles advertised I assumed that they were made in a non-brittle material like ADI (Austempered Ductile Iron) https://www.aditreatments.com/?p=17
I have seen multiples of broken ones like that. And it has been discussed multiple times on the HAMB too.
Not so fast there guys Lowest bidder my ass . The military are notorious for buying things and not caring about the cost. Their supply chain just buys from the suppliers they have contracts with who cares about the price. Read this: http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-30/news/vw-18804_1_nut
Yes, and no. Low bit, massive cost overruns are frequently the case, too. Individual items are frequently hyper-inflated in price. Complicated assembled machines are subject to astronomical overrun, after bid. http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/03/15/How-Build-400-Billion-F-35-Doesn-t-Fly
Being a retired machinist the word "billet" is not offensive to me as to some people but...............remember that phase when you could buy most any billet aluminum geegaw part you wanted. The one that always chapped me were those that were labeled "cast billet". What the hell is "cast billet"?
Thanks for the replies and videos...am somewhat familiar with traditional casting/forging and machining, but thought a new forged axle for around $300.00 was a "too good to be true" type of thing, and being somewhat skeptical, led me to think a cheaper method of forging had been found. forgot to add.......SO-CAL add does say their axles and spindles are forged from 1045.
Here are the damaged parts from a minor crash my truck and I had recently including a bent, cast Super Bell axle. Bent, not broken. Gary
Doesn't all ferrous metal begin as iron ore?........If so, cast iron and steel have the same origins...but what happens along the way through the smelter and refinement with added materials and processes produces a very different product.
The Jalopy Journal
