I guess I'm old school but I won't use anything on my car that I cannot strip off at a later date. I use paint.
Powder coating is strong but not indestructible. It can be stripped with chemical stripper or sanded off.
Here's another suggestion.....epoxy primer and urethane enamel paint, but applied via electrostatic painting system. Virtually no wasted paint, since the paint is attracted to the grounded part being painted. I have a Randsburg paint system and have done numerous race car chassis. As an example, a sprint car can be done with about a quart each of primer and paint. To do my T roadster frame, front and rear axles, I mixed a quart of each and only used about 1/2 of it. Lynn
Ok, let us in on the secret! Just which product is it? And does it work equally well on both aluminum and steel? I know that for me, I've had more issues with aluminum than steel and I suspect it has to do with the greater expansion of the aluminum under cure heat.
Powder coating is a durable finish. Great for something that would get handled or beat up over time. Usually has a nice consistent finish. If it's cheaper to have done then painting, it would make sense to go that route. Usually it's the other way around.
I painted my 35 frame and can recall rubbing everything down beforehand after fabricating and welding. Lots of prepping. More rubbing and prepping before it hit the spray booth along with all the small parts for final 2pak and clear coat coats. Everything had to be hung just right over a number of days before it was all completed. I remember that it was very time consuming, labour intensive and fiddly work that used a lot of consumables; paint, thinners etc. In the end I had no fingerprints from all the rubbing down. This time around I'll run fine discs over everything to clean up welds etc and to remove any blemishes etc and sandblast every nook and cranny, joint etc before I have the frame powder coated. Still a lot of preparation however a lot less than spray painting IMHO. Powder coating is very hard wearing with a durable finish that's easy to clean. This time round the frame will be black, not sure if satin or gloss, and not colour coded to body. Every bracket etc that is necessary is fabricated and incorporated and not an afterthought. If I need to fabricate anything later it'll have it powder coated and be bolted on. Proper planning and execution of the frame design is critical before any final colour is even considered. It's too late later if you forgot to include or fabricate something.
Thanks, as I said in an earlier post, all the brackets will be welded before powder or paint. I’m in the process of mocking everything up and welding whatever is necessary. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Powder coated every piece I could on the chassis for my roadster in satin black. A friend did all but the basic frame. Looks good - low maintenance.
I paint, and I'd rather send out chassis stuff to be powder coated. Tougher, and sometimes even cheaper than buying all the materials to paint it, not to mention all the prep time! Ever price one quart of good single stage urethane????
Having seen the result of Western using powder coat on their snowplows, I'd never have anything powder coated. The powder coating only lasted one season and was worse on the back of the blade than the front. We had access to a Pangborn shot blaster to get the powder coat off and some good paint on. Ten years later, the paint is still good. You probably won't be exposing your car to salt spray. Even the slightest chip in powder coat allows salt to get underneath and cause it to peel off in sheets.
Frame on something that's going to be visible, yeah id probably paint it. My 57 I had powdered and never looked back. half the cost, half the time, much better rock durability and almost any color you can dream of
I painted mine with napa industrial acrylic enamel with the hardner.The paint material was about $100.00 for everything. I do all my chassis this way. Holds up well. This is the chassis from the Willy's I'm building now, painted the same way.
That's a classic case of poor or nonexistent pre-coating prep and typical of 'assembly line' coating that too many manufacturers do. Applied correctly over a clean, dry and properly sandblasted surface, it WILL NOT peel. The sandblasting is the most important part of the prep, as that gives the 'surface tooth' for the coating to attach to. Peeling shows they skipped that step...
I couldn't have summed it up any better @Crazy Steve. There was a similar discussion on the Garage Journal forum about commercially-done powder work a few months back. There are tremendous differences between doing it right and doing it very, very wrong. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398413
If youre having trouble with adhesion to aluminum, its most likely a prep issue inherent to aluminum. Alum is a bitch, you scuff it down and it flash oxidizes almost instantly, try doing your final scuff, wipe, immediately before shooting powder or paint. Just an example, the last alum part I did with pearl in clear, right over alum. Sanded all in 1 direction to get a nice pattern. Cleaned the panel. Set up paint gun, mixed paint, tested spray pattern. Came back and wet sanded part with panel prep and sandpaper. Wiped with wet panel prep rag, poured panel prep over the part to remove any grit. Kept the panel wet and hung it. Blew it off with air and as soon as the panel prep flashed off. Started shooting clear on it.
Most powders that shops use are industrial grade type stuff, tough, but not outstanding gloss. So comparing the price of base clear auto paint to powder just isnt fair. Comparing powder to single stage industrial paint is fair. Many body shops dont even have single stage in the building I use powder or paint just depends. I recently got an old oven and powder gun kit, so ill venture into learning it more. Use what youre comfortable with, can afford, or gives the results you're looking for. There may be a need for base clear on a frame - my projects arent that nice.
Leanna Curious if the powder industry reclaims/recycles material as it appears by watching videos that a large amount of material goes into the air? Another thing is thickness, it seems that powder shows even the slightest imperfections and there doesn't seem to be a consensus as to what filler is compatible with the powder process. Also, does the powder process allow a second coat before being cured or is the electric charge compromised after the first coat?
@indyjps, Steve wanted to know what I use for metal repairs and I sent him the info privately. That part of the discussion wasn't really adhesion related. Forty plus years ago powder colors, textures and finishes were pretty limited to black, white and red. These days though the sky is the limit and virtually ANY color, finish and gloss rate can be matched with powder. Just my main supplier has over 6,500 colors in stock at all times ... and if by some VERY small chance the exact one needed isn't yet manufactured, custom formulations can be mixed (there is a 5 pound minimum order and a $150 fee). However, in over 19 years of working with them I have never had to resort to a custom formulation simply due to the fact that so many already exist. @DDDenny, I personally never recycle my powders and have never worked for a large facility so I cannot speak for them. The potential for trash, floaties and dust in the leftovers is just too great and will not be tolerated by me or my customers. If there's a "large amount" of overspray in those videos you watch, I'd be willing to bet they're rookies who need to adjust their kv settings. There is very little waste when the ground is functioning properly. Powder will show imperfections in the metal as much as paint does. Part numbers, stampings and casting defects will show unless the mil thickness is excessive. Check out these old Jensens I had the pleasure of restoring ... that shit was so thick on there it made CRATERS, and was without a doubt THE single worst powder coating job I have ever seen. There are a few "powder coating fillers" on the market but none have ever impressed me. Lab Metal, ThermoBond 3 etc., are all pretty lame in my opinion. Sadly the one I've relied on now for many years -- actually an exhaust repair compound rather than anything powder-industry specific -- was apparently discontinued so I'll be looking for something else when my stash runs low. Multiple coats are possible but are unnecessary if you get good coverage the first time. Just touching the piece will compromise the electric charge, as will curing it. Getting into multi-colors on the same part like I mainly do is Trade Secret Territory though so I will not address that.
It's possible to do multiple coats, but it is a bit of a PITA. As Cudachick says, if you get the right coating thickness initially, a second coat isn't needed. Generally, to ensure the coating is thick enough I'll keep spraying powder until I no longer see any build-up in the coating. It's impossible to get 'too much' powder on in the initial coat, the excess will simply fall away. You'll 'waste' some powder that way, but not that much and it's still cheaper than paint. There are exceptions; I was coating some cast aluminum parts that contained filler repairing damaged areas, and the filler edges still showed after the first coat (which seems to be an issue with any filler). I sanded the coating, and repeated the coating (sanding between each coat) until the defect was minimal. I'll also do multiple coats on things like battery trays that are exposed to corrosive conditions (usually three coats on battery hardware). But thicker coatings will 'mar' easier and cover detail, so you don't want to do this unless necessary. You don't want the thicker coating on some surfaces that bolt to another either as the coating has 'give' in it and they may not stay tight as it can 'extrude' off from under the connection. How to actually apply additional coats? Once you've applied the first coat, you have in effect 'insulated' the piece and the coating won't stick evenly when using the electrostatic 'charge' . I don't know how Cudachick does it, but what's worked for me is pre-heating the piece to 200 degrees, then immediately applying powder without the charge. The powder will partially melt upon contact, sticking to the item. This isn't idiot-proof, you have to pay attention to the coating appearance to be sure you've got an even coating. Not even everywhere, you'll get a uneven finish. Too much, you can get runs. This does take some practice, I'd suggest experimenting on something not needed until you get the hang of it. This will generally result in a thicker coating than the initial one, which may or may not be desirable. As to recycling any powder that doesn't stick, don't do it. Unless you're doing this in 'clean room' conditions, you'll pick up crap in the powder that will show when you reuse it. Tried it once, never again.... For the DIYer at home, powder can save you real money over paint; I've used it lot on my motorcycle projects. Coating everything I could, I used about 1 lb of powder for a whole bike... $9 per lb. Granted, I farmed out some items (frame and swingarm; my oven isn't big enough) and didn't coat some items (engine cases because I didn't want to totally disassemble it, fenders/tank due to bondo, wheels because I didn't want to replace the sealed bearings), but I coated everything else; full brake system except for the rotors, hand controls, handlebars, engine side covers, rocker covers, forward controls, chainguard, battery tray, and all metal brackets. I've even done carburetors, although that can get tricky.
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