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Technical 327 problem

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Carl Wurfel, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. This is what I do, IIRC, 40 FT-LBS is the magic number. I start out with the crank, make sure that turns like butter before bolting anything else to it.
     
  2. That looks like Permatex Ultra Slick, not what I use for installing pistons. BTW, great article, thanks.
     
  3. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    testing clearances you build without rings make sure everything works and then add rings its in the book...
    I said I was very careful.
     
  4. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hypereutectic pistons? They fit pretty tight in the bores, and combined with that cam & lifter glue would make it harder to turn.
     
  5. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    I did not have the Rods resized I got bearings to match what was machined I think -002 if I remember right. I used plastigauge on everything and the numbers looked ok, I don't think I mixed up the rod caps they were numbered, I didn't actually take the engine apart so I can't be sure the numbers are correct.. thats a good point.
     
  6. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    I think I may have those, I am not even sure but on search they look like that, I sort of think everything is glued together yes. but maybe that's optimism and arrogance that I didn't make a bigger mistake.
     
  7. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    Not sure what book You have.. I use to build race engines at a reputable machine Shop, I honestly have never heard that one... A lot of the time an engine sitting over night, next day will be stiff, But as soon as you get 20° movement it spin's with less resistance... Did you notice that or no?
     
  8. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    a 327 does not have a bolt in the end of the crank, I used the key and a socket on a torque wrench and now I cannot remember how many #s it was to turn I know I could not use that socket on it at the end of build without the key stripping off, this makes this test challenging unless a "crank snout socket" is a real thing.
     
  9. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    This rite here is Paramount... So You are relying of the skill set of someone else... This could be your missing link to the issue IMO..
     
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  10. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    Yes I would work it back and forth a bit then it would turn, again with no bolt on the end of crank only so much force could be applied with a key on the crankshaft and a large socket. but yes it turned each time. but always very stiff especially after sitting even for an hour.
     
  11. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 3,043

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just an idea: If you put the rod caps on the wrong way, they will turn harder., because the rods press against each other. From the top of my head, if I remember correctly, my " How to rebuild your Chevy Smallblock "- book stated, that a fresh built shortblock ( minus heads/ valvetrain) should require no more than 25 ft/lbs to be turned over....
     
  12. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    Yes good point so how do you deal with the issue of bearing caps being mixed up? buy new ones? or take it to the shop for a test?
     
  13. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    I would have to look at how many ft lbs it is supposed is supposed to be the max, can look tonight. The thing that bothered me was that the motor got progressively tighter after each part or set of parts I added. I am pretty sure it was a bit over the max number, but not a lot over.
     
  14. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    8 assys turn tighter, than one. Expected.
    Re-sizing rods is unfamiliar, Jim?
     
  15. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 3,043

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Years ago a buddy gave me a 4" bore block someone had disassembled without marking the main caps. It was free. So I tried each main cap on the block and tried to feel a ridge or edge. The cap that had a perfectly smooth transition to the block at each bearing was the right one. You can feel even the slightest imperfection. If the wrong cap is on, you can definitively feel it.This engine has more than 120000 miles on it now and still runs like a champ.
     
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  16. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    My money is down, Rod's at minimum are probably mixed cap's... Like mentioned above, it's not that difficult to figure out Who belongs to Who, Not the right way but most have, A pair of calipers with dial indicator will get you close unless you have the inside micrometer set-up.. check them for round when torqued minus bearing's, You may see a distinct shinny spot if to tight by rod/cap (bearing) meeting on disassembly..
     
  17. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,993

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    I skimmed through Again real Quick, I'm sure You are aware the rod cap for each rod only goes on one way, It's a dumb statement I know, But... Can't rule anything out...
     
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  18. JC Sparks
    Joined: Dec 8, 2008
    Posts: 733

    JC Sparks
    Member
    from Ohio

    [QUOTE="I could not use that socket on it at the end of build without the key stripping off, this makes this test challenging unless a "crank snout socket" is a real thing.[/QUOTE]

    If the key would shear off before the engine turns you are fucked! You need to pull it apart, there is something wrong.
     
    bundybiker and Hollywood-East like this.
  19. Are you positive you had the right size pistons? Maybe .040s in a .030 block. Will the crank turn freely with the mains torqued and no rods attached? I built a 360 FE Ford that had a real tight spot for about 90 degrees of rotation when assembled. Wound up having it align-honed to correct it.
     
  20. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,132

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Ok
    I'll come right out and say what hasn't been said.
    You have used this two word term pretty regularly in many of your posts and that's
    "I think".
    When it comes to building an engine that more often than not will lead to problems.

    Most didn't.
    The NOS crank in my 327 came out of the GM box with the crank nose drilled and tapped for the harmonic balancer retention bolt.

     
  21. Well said, and is fact.
     
    Deuces likes this.
  22. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 7,856

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    I'm going with dirty assembly, alignment issues, & lack of accurate measuring of tolerances. Figured it'd be apart by now ...
     
    Deuces likes this.
  23. Hutkikz
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 135

    Hutkikz
    Member

  24. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 979

    BigDogSS
    Member
    from SoCal

    While the thing is apart, take the crank down to the machine shop and have the snout drilled and tapped for a bolt!!
     
    Deuces, BigChief and Carl Wurfel like this.
  25. Doesn't sound like he would have one laying around.
     
  26. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    Yes Sir
     
  27. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    I do have the old one because I replaced it.
     
  28. Carl Wurfel
    Joined: Nov 9, 2017
    Posts: 68

    Carl Wurfel

    No I used oil on the pistons just used that sticky stuff on cam lifters rods
     
  29. It's gotta come apart and ring gap measured and the new rods should be resized IMHO. Cam bearings also need to be looked at. Plastigage every one of the bearings. something I'm guilty of not doing occasionally. Like has already been said, check for shiny spots on rod/main bearings, especially at parting lines.
     
    Carl Wurfel likes this.

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