Hot Rods Did I just lose the clutch plate on my 1959 Rambler?

Just as I was leaving the Stafford Springs Speedway parts swap meet this past Sunday, my transmission started making noises. Actually, the column shifter was hesitant to go into first or reverse. When it did go into first, I creeped forward a little at a time and there was a scraping sound, then a rattling sound, then a chirping sound. I drove the 18 miles cautiously by using second and third gears. Today I checked the linkage, checked the fluid and drove it slowly down the street. It would emit a chirping sound like there was something rattling around. When the clutch was pushed in, the sound stopped. Second and third gear were fine. Is it a blown clutch friction plate?

 

Sounds more like the transmission to me.

 

How is it in reverse? Sounds like a bearing in the first gear has given it up

 

Hard for me to tell from your description. Clutch failure usually means slipping. If you give it gas the engine will rev without the corresponding acceleration.

 

The sound seem to be coming from the bellhousing area and not the tranny. Like something is rattling around. Plenty of friction, no slippage, goes into reverse and backs up fine.

 

I can come look at it. (You know me, I sold you a white 74 bug..)..I think you moved after that, so where in Coventry now? PM me or call nights.. Frank

.

 

Look at T.O. brg., sounds like it began to 'freeze up', (dry inside?) and tore off one or both spring fingers securing brg. to the fork.

Probably right on the other side of fear. (Love that, Frank!)

 

I'm agreeing with Atwater Mike, sounds like it's throwout bearing related.

 

Frank, I'll call you Thursday evening. Thanks for your help. I loved that VW. With a dual carb setup and lowering spindles it was a fun ride. It went to a friend of mine, so it's still in good hands.

 

In order to get it home, I drove it all the way up Lewis Hill Road in Coventry, CT in third gear with no lugging of the engine or slippage of the clutch. That hill is 7% grade for about 1/2 mile. The problem only occurs when in first gear.

 

Rebuilt engine. Pulls really nice.

 

Ran the car back and forth in the driveway, 1st and reverse. Lots of clutch shuddering, some clunking noises. I will check the motor mounts as soon as I can find someone to sit in the driver's seat and cycle through the gears with the brake on.

 

I will call tomorrow, and then come over. Raining too much right now.

.

 

Along with the engine mounts also check the transmission mount, it is possible to have clutch chatter without it slipping, if it’s been overheated or if one of the torsional springs is broken. The torsional springs are the ones in the center of the disk, they can rattle as well if they are broken


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

That's pretty cool of you, Frank. I just realized where you guys are, my youngest number one son lives in Willie. I'd tell him to give you a hand, but his automotive expertise only goes as far as glass installation.

 

Checked the sound this morning. Engine running, trans in neutral, clutch engaged, some whirring noise from tranny, not too loud, but audible. Sounds like input shaft bearing.

 

I know nothing about your clutch troubles, but I sure like your car!

 

Not sure if you have hydraulic clutch. I had same type of symptoms from bad slave cylinder on an OT shitbox. Thought it was the clutch, changed it and same problem. Then found it was the slave.
Just a thought

 

I say look at the disc or cover springs carefully. Your going to have to take it apart anyhow, look at everything and replace the t/o bearing just to be safe. I did have an issue with my flathead recently trying to mix a different cover and disc......so stay with the same manufacturer on both.

 

Ok, I did get to Steve's place late this afternoon. We need more help with anyone who knows these T96 closed drive, NON-O/D 3 speeds. (BTW this is a closed drive...if it was conventional open drive shaft, I would just pull the trans at this point)

-Clutch pedal feels 100% factory mint. No noises as he worked the pedal while the engine is running.

-Car not moving, engine idling quietly, trans in Neutral, clutch pedal released...you can tell for sure that the input bearing race is pitted. It is steady fainter noise like from pitted race, but not a growl like when the ball bearings are flaking apart. That noise stops with the clutch depressed.

-Steve drove it only around the block. As soon as we took off, (First gear only)there was a very random tinny noise like something loose and moving around/hitting something? then stops instantly. He did get into 2nd, no noise. It did the same thing at the next stop sign, first gear. He did not want to drive it any further.

-the trans oil was only down "a couple ounces" when he checked earlier this week. At the swapmeet, he had parked on a steep embankment, and when he went to leave, the trans would not go into 1st/rev at first.?? Now it shifts fine?

Looking at a transmission exploded view I found on a Stude parts website:

^^^ Take a look at the input main bearing (6.040-1), it is a ball type bearing...then look at the oil deflector behind it(6.040-2). Perhaps the "cage" that holds the input balls aligned, is coming apart, and hitting that tin deflector?

Ok, we both thought the noise perhaps might be something hitting in the engine compartment, so I did get a good yank in both directions on the motor, and the motor is not moving around like bad mounts. It was very cold/damp, and this was my second stop in town helping with a car ...so I left to go look at a book before jumping the gun.

So if any of you know these T96 transmissions, add a comment. It has to come out at some point this winter, as the input bearing won't last forever as is, even if the weird random noise is not related. The car is not used in winter during body work, etc.

It is a very cool car...pics for you Hambers below : BTW..Not much rust for a Massachusettes car! Love that rear tailgate window crank LOL

Oh, Steve wanted to video my car as I started it up.....big mistake... I had just said ''I don't go nuts anymore"...but...an easy 1/3 throttle burn out for his neighbors.. I just can't help it.. ........Coventry is one town you don't do that chit...and sure enough, as I was heading to Willi minutes later, they had a cruiser doing radar on RT 31 south.. but I already knew they sit there...

.

 

View attachment 4078120 View attachment 4078127 Thanks for stopping over and lending your knowledge Frank. I'll let you know what it looks like when I pull it. Here's some more photos plus a photoshopped version from HAMB'er with a lowered stance.

 

Frank
That was very nice of you to go over and help a fellow HAMB'er.

 

I really hate not driving this car. Last weekend I took it camping at the Somerset, VT abandoned airfield up on National Forest Rd. 71. Slept in the back just like it was designed.

 

How about a loose starter drive as the noise source?

 

I will check out the starter today. Also draining the tranny lube and fishing a magnet inside the tranny housing today. Later on, I will cut an access panel in the tranny hump to pop off the top of the T-96.

 

Bearings in the cluster gear! In the drawing part # 6.167-1

 

I drained the transmission oil today and fished a magnet around the tranny case. This is what came out. I believe Frank is right about a disintegrated input carrier bearing and oil deflector.

 

Time for a rebuild. Hopefully you don't need more than bearings and a couple thrust washers.

 

I think it won't be too much damage because the trans sounded normal until that random "tinny" clashing happened at certain times in first gear.

Hopefully just the main input bearing oil deflector was that noise? I'm glad he used a ruler there.. it looks too big to be from a cluster shim? What do you think?

.