Technical Which Zinc additive for H.A.M.B. engines?

I've used Valvoline VR-1 since the '60s. Excellent service, had it in bulk when I had my shop.
30 wt. Racing was its old name, all my Porsche customers used it.

When the big Zinc scare came about, coincidentally, I had a Comp Cam go flat in my Vortek (in my F100) 3 lobes, toward the rear, (like in the 'Old SBC Days'!)
Naturally, I had changed oils when I built the engine...LOL I used some glitchy name (non-synthetic, 10/40) so I blamed the lobe failure on the oil, Natch!
Valvoline went back in when I replaced the cam, lifters, and good oil filter...that's been 11 years now. Perfect! Well...'perfect enough'!

 

Actually, with any of today's oils, all flat tappet (solid and hydraulic) cam/lifters will gall in a time frame selected by nature.
That is "no" oil made today will keep a flat tapped alive for ever..!
The sky IS actually falling.

Mike

 

The only additive needed is a right foot pushing the gas pedal

I have put 10 zillion miles on old flat tappet engines this century
I do use the additives during a break in period
And I do like the rotella T4 stuff A lot has to do with the $14 a gallon price

 

That is not true. At least not what is implied. It may be true that at some point all flat tappet cams will fail, or as you put it ""no" oil made today will keep a flat tapped alive for ever..!" But that has always been true, all mechanical systems wear and will eventually fail, but there are oils available today that will protect a cam as well as any oil ever has.

 

Is it true that very slow or prolonged idling is hard on cams?

 

I've been using Valvoline 20 50 racing oil in my flat-tappet Studebakers since the dawn of time.
well... 1960s anyway.
Never a cam failure ever.
I still use one Stude engine I aquired at 110,000 miles in 1974, and have used in THREE daily drivers as they eventually rusted and were replaced by a better body style....same engine.
Eventually that engine ended up in my Stude pickup in the late 80s where it has worn out FOUR speedometers over many years of many miles, and still fires right up today, ready to do some work carrying things some more.
Twice over the decades, just to freshen it up, I installed the cheapest JC Whitney ring-and-bearing sets for no particular reason, and continue to use Valvoline 20 50.
Dono how many times the various odometers rolled over, but it still has the factory original 1962 Lark cam and lifters.
I started using 20 50 long long long ago to make up for the traditional Stude oil pressure drop when the oil warms up.
Never a prob.
Here is my "million mile?" truck taking down a sign I made for Buddy at Buddy Ingersol's shop. I bought the sign back after he died.


WHY BE ORDINARY ?

 

The Zinc motor oil story has almost become the stuff of legends. I have seen more people haggle over this issue (heatedly) on automotive forums than any other. It has been very well demonstrated that Zinc provides wear surface protection benefits at break-in. What folks seem to have forgotten is that extensive testing has been done on Zinc additives to motor oil, from the 1930's thru the 70's. People also seem to forget that Zinc is a phosphorous substance. It's right in the name, after all: ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate)

Phosphates such as Zinc do indeed provide additional lubrication benefits in very small amounts. Phosphates, however, will actually increase engine wear significantly when added in larger amounts (concentrations above 1500 ppm.) Engine rebuilders recommend a concentration of 1200 ppm for break-in only. This is why I cringe when I read how posters on automotive forums enthusiastically discuss how they use Zinc oils like Rotella, and then add "a bottle or two" of Zinc additive to their engines...even long after break-in.

The principal benefit from Zinc is that it leaves lubricating film on wear surfaces. Consequently, startup will be the primary protection zone that Zinc comes into play. The oil itself takes over after that. Some motor oil companies may have done away with Zinc in their oil, but no one seems to understand that in those oils, Zinc has been done away with in favor of other lubricant enhancers, like Molybedenum and Boron...which don't actually cause the damage that phosphates like Zinc do. Molybedenum and Boron also leave a film on wear surfaces after shutoff.

Its fine to add Zinc to your oil after break-in if you feel the need. But understand that it's not a "more Zinc is always better" proposition, as many seem to think these days. Using Zinc in concentrations above 1500 ppm for extended periods will cause problems like pitting on wear surfaces and camshaft spalling. That's not conjecture. It's physics.

 

Just do what I do in my expensive BBC Race engine on the recommendation of an oil company [Castrol]
Use high load Diesel oil.

Most diesel engines have 2o:1 compression ratios [and turboed] they need a good film of oil for these bearing loads. And a lot of diesel engines still run non-roller followers

 

The initial cam break-in is what keeps them alive for a long time. I have never lost a cam in 45 years of installing them. I did use and I still use a Kendall racing oil in just about every performance build I have done. Stock cars got straight 50 weight Kendall. Everyone has their go-to oil and engine builders are notoriously superstitious about what they use and recommend to their customers.

 

Brad Penn oil in all my old cars.

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/luc-10683

 

The Pep Boys close to me carries it, I haven't tried it yet.

 

Engine guy sold some Brad Penn 30 weight for my latest motor. Said it was a good break in oil. I plan on running it about 1500 miles and changing it for a second batch of Brad Penn.

 

After reading this thread...

 

Just pm. Blues4U he did or does this for a living...oil specialist...sorry forgot your real title...he separates the shit from shinola

 

and eventually this:

 

I agree that Blues4U knows his stuff. I would like to know what specific oil and weight he runs in his hamb friendly vehicle(s).

 

Something like15 years ago the gov. mandated the oil companies start the reduction in the ZDDP's in conventional oil. So if you want the same oil protection as oil from the days when we had REAL cars, you need to replace the ZDDP's. I use ZDDP plus one little bottle to an oil change. The oil of my choice is now equal to the oil I used most of my life. I don't increase my ZDDP.....I replace what was removed so that it doesn't kill the O2 sensor in 95% of the cars that are on the road today. It's tough to find because you can't explain to your oil supplier, if you can't even explain it to a hotrodder.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence. In the 283 in my A I use 15W40 CJ-4 diesel engine oil. At operating temp it has the viscosity of an SAE 40 grade oil, which is just about right for that engine. The multi-viscosity properties gives better pumpability when cold. The zinc level is about 1200 - 1300 ppm. IMO this is the best option for the vast majority of flat tappet engines out there today. In the old days diesel engine oil wasn't a great option for gas engines due to the higher levels of sulfated ash (can lead to piston deposits). But years ago the industry placed a limit of 1% for sulfated ash, which is about the same SA level of gasoline engine oils from back in the day, so this is no longer a concern. HDDEO's are great for neutralizing acids and corrosive compounds that can develop, especially in engines that aren't driven too hard and for short distances, they'll keep the engine spotless inside. And they provide excellent anti-wear protection. This is far better oil than was available back when that engine was new. IMO this is the best option, and that's what I use.

In my 47 I have a roller cam, so I just use a good name brand 10W30 SN licensed, syn-blend oil. The zinc is limited to 800 ppm max, but for this engine I think that is fine. The syn-blend provides great protection against oxidation, and it has seal swell agents to keep the seals and gaskets pliable. It also has good detergency to keep the engine clean.

The main thing IMO is to use a name brand product, not a house brand, as the quality IMO is kept to a higher level. The API licensing system keeps everything at good quality, but the API specs are a minimum level. House brands tend to just meet the minimum specs, brand names tend to exceed those minimum levels by a decent margin. That's why the house brands cost less. They use cheaper additives, or lower treat rates. Or both.

 

Thanks for all the responses! Here's a link where you can see various test results:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/

And here's W-mart brand! AKA: the "Big W"

http://pqiadata.org/SuperTech15W40.html



could not resist, sorry...

 

I run this stuff in all my flat tappet engines auto and farm and the price is righthttps://www.walmart.com/ip/STP-Oil-Treatment-15-fluid-ounces-8262-Oil-Additives/16817398

 

There is less ZDDP in STP oil treatment than in a quart of [insert quality brand name here] modern SM motor oil.

 

Go to the Alliance Vendors here on the HAMB. End of the list, ZDDPlus as mentioned in other posts here. Check out their website for technical info. Have lost cams in SBC's and 60's Volvos. Has been good insurance for the older motors after wiping out the cam lobes on flat tappet cams.