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Technical Mild rant: anyone else finding it hard?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by chopolds, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    It seems that about once a week I receive a call from a prospective customer that wants the tracking number on the order he/she placed last week...............................by ESP! :p

    Jon
     
  2. 59Tele
    Joined: Feb 5, 2016
    Posts: 129

    59Tele

    I think they already have. A few years ago I cleaned the mirror off my '99 Escort backing my truck in the driveway. We had a lot of snow that winter and the driveway kept shrinking. I ordered a new one off Epay, 16.95 and free shipping. Later that day I was passing a Ford dealer and swung in to price one at the Parts Counter, just out of curiosity. I hope you're sitting down. A hundred sixty-nine dollars and 95 cents. That's right, ten times as much. When the one I ordered showed up, it was exactly the same, it had the same casting lines and flashing in the plastic as the original. I can see the dealership maybe doubling the price with their overhead but 10 times?? There's probably some little factory in China with 8 people working cranking these things out. I just don't get it.
     
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  3. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,755

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When I ordered the radiator for my '39 p/u from The Brass Works in Paso Robles I asked Lee what the lead time was and he replied 7-8 weeks. He continued by saying that if I had a problem with that to talk to my school board about reinstating tech/shop classes in the high schools. He said he can't find enough qualified help to meet the demand at his shop. Nowadays everything is all about college prep and not enough about the trades. And for the ones who start the college track only to realize after a year or 2 that they should have learned a trade all they have to show for their start on the college track is a bunch of student debt and the loss of 2 years or so of experience leading to being a skilled trades member. JMHO
     
  4. Or maybe it's the fact that a radiator for a new car is $100 so who the hell is going to pay someone to repair one. Times have changed, we need to deal with it. I can't get my horse shoed down the street anymore either.
     
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  5. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 1,959

    X-cpe

    I've been a shop teacher for a lifetime.I teach in a county were the parents would rather have their kid sitting with a B.A. degree on the wall behind their desk making peanuts than working a trade making a real living. You've never met a stupid craftsman , but I'll bet you know plenty of dumb asses with a degree.

    I learned that when I was teaching H.S. We took in faculty and community cars for live work. "Its not really worth fixing, but ........." Soon realized that we were busting our butts to save them money. And all the students were learning was how to "shine shit". Learned to say "If its not worth fixing, why would we." Did a lot of helping kids keep their own shitboxes on the road though.
     
  6. OG parts stores had that arsenal of books on every counter. Just by flipping through them you were exposed to a lot of input and it gets filed away in the brain sometimes. Now everything has to be looked up on a computer and people have to learn how to help themselves, some are good at it, some are not. I've been able to suggest searches and certain years and the right part pops up! Being car-smart is not a pre-requisite to have a parts counter job, more like can you pass a drug test and the fog a mirror test? These people get paid whether you walk out of the store with or without the part you came in for... or walk out in disgust.
     
  7. I respectfully disagree with the above. I believe the far more larger and worse offenders for that line of thinking are parents, including many (or most ?) who seem willing to make extreme $acrifices in hopes of enabling/ensuring "their" child(ren) wouldn't have to work a blue-collar jobs or those just willing to accommodate any whims or wishes their precious little off-spring can conjure up, even if those numb-nuts have no real change to amount to a hill of beans or excel in any field requiring(?) college education.

    So we can end up with more hacks ? ;) :D
     
    CudaChick1968 likes this.
  8. Retail auto parts stores suck, but where do you find an independent, old time parts store with real countermen? Ten years ago, my wife was the assistant manager at the “new” O’really store in town. She had a very loyal following because she knows how to use the parts books and never said “that’s what the computer shows”.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What you seek shall not be found.

    The business we bring is so insignificant that it would not be missed were it lost.
     
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  10. + 1 !
     
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  11. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,802

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had a problem with a leaking steering control valve. Brought it to a very reputable shop off the car to repair. Leaked, took it back, leaked. After 2 times off said the hell with it and took it apart with a manual photo and book I bought. I bought seals from a guy in Northern Calif who figured out what the real problem was. Put it back on and it hasn't leaked in 5 yrs.
    With the internet today there is almost nothing I'll try not to fix. My son is the same and he's 50.
     
  12. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 1,959

    X-cpe

    When I taught HS I used one store even if their prices weren't always the best for everything. That way my monthly total was enough that if, at the end of the day, it turned out to be a 9 spark plug tune up I could get number 9 delivered.
     
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  13. brad2v
    Joined: Jun 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,652

    brad2v
    Member

    As K13 mentioned, we're kinda getting horses shorn here for the most part. That said, there are 2 rad shops (one of which, I've dealt with for 30 years) left in the city of 1 million that I live in. I've never had trouble getting glass cut. Exhaust shops are everywhere, although the quality seems to be questionable, and the prices keep going up. I build my own now, mandrel bent pieces aren't expensive, and figuring out how to stick 'em all together to me seems way easier than making patch panels for the body as an example. There are only a handful of local engine machine shops though, no doubt due to the previously mentioned crate motor/junkyard LS popularity. An old fashioned neighborhood machine/fabrication shop where you could get a one-off whatever made has gone the way of the dodo bird. Living in oil and gas country, there a bunch of fab shops, but are used to gajillion dollar contract work (even though the bottom fell out several years ago), so, understandably, some joker looking to spend $150 or whatever to get some one-off widget made is of low importance.
    Re, the local parts thing, this horse has been flogged on many occasions here. I've been a parts guy essentially my entire working life. So it goes without saying that the parts guy I deal with for the most part on all my old junk is me. I work for a good sized car dealership, that spends $$ at a couple local wholesalers. Resulting in a significant discount, and even at that I buy my fair share from Rockauto.
    The book reference is an excellent point. Back when I started, you either wrote a number down, or stuck it in the ol' memory bank before plonking it into the computer of the time. This activity trained the noodle to retain some shit (there's part #'s for 50 year old cars rattling around in my head). Now, in the age of electronic catalogs, all the kids copy and paste, and don't retain a fuckin thing. I watch the 27 year old standing beside me read the part # off of oil filters he sells 20 times a day while he types it in. Anyone have a kid make change without a calculator anymore? Good Lord, painful. By the way, I get paid way better if I sell you something than if I don't. That, and I actually give a shit if I help fix your car or not.
     
  14. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well as far as new car dealers parts departments go Federal law only requires them to list (not even have on the shelves) parts for vehicles eleven years old an newer. That has been the law for over 20 years
    With Napa, Autozone and or O'Reilly's you can look the part up online and even check inventory. That also means you can look it up on Rock Auto's site, ten cross reference the part on the others to see if it is available locally Then you can walk in armed with the part number.
    As far as prices on parts, Each time a part goes through a step in the process in the chain the price increases as the operation that handles that step gets their cut. I used to work on a parts house that was a warehouse distributor, I got to buy parts for my rigs at their cost and that was part of the attraction for working there, Still the sold parts to other parts houses at "dealer", parts to shops at Jobber and to walk in at a rate that was just above jobber but a lot below list. It didn't matter who you were you got a price that was below list and below most other parts houses in the area's "buddy deals" Guys would come in with a receipt from another parts house in town telling that they bought the parts there because they always got "a deal" Their deal was our list price or above and we didn't sell at list.
    We still have several good glass shops that cut flat glass in the area and part of that may be that a few of the do a lot of glass replacement in farm equipment that has laminated flat glass. We have several job shop machine shops in the area that cater to the ag and food processing industry That will do small jobs but you might have to take a number and get in line during harvest.
    I've got a great upholstery guy here in town but he is backed up and a full interior ties up the car for quite a while most of the time. Price is competitive but not "cheap". I've got a long time buddy two miles away (mom held me over his crib to see the baby when he was a week old) who can weld anything made out of any metal and has the equipment to machine it. He's semi retired and just takes on what he wants to now.
    You think old car parts and service are bad try having an old sailboat that was an orphan to begin with. The local marina/boat repair/supply place only knows fishing, jet ski and wake board boats. You get the frigging blank stare when you say sailboat.
     
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  15. This is the reason I talk to the non-HAMB owners/builders at shows. You increase your range of sources when you interact with people outside your circle.
     
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  16. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,959

    Jimbo17
    Member

    You know your getting old when you know more then the guy behind the parts counter at any auto parts store!
    What other things do you see changing as we get older?
    Such as the people who work at the food store where I shop keep asking me if I need help loading my bags into my car!!!!

    Jimbo
     
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  17. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 1,959

    X-cpe

    When I started out as the truck mechanic's helper, Chester would send me to the parts department with the name of a part that I didn't know. Half the time I would wind up with Jimmy, the new guy. We would muddle it out and I would wind up with what Chester sent me after and Jimmy would have new notes in the margins of the parts book. Along came an updated parts book and bye bye notes. After that Jimmy copied his notes before disposing of the old book. He soon became one of the go to parts guys.
     
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  18. Well, I don't think I felt that "old" (I was about 21 at the time) when I first time walked in to an auto parts store in USA (Santa Monica, CA) in mid-eighties and after replying to a "what kind of a car are you working on ?" question asked by a counter salesman approximately twice my age with "A 1955 Packard 400, Sir."**, I was nearly floored by his follow-up question of "Is that a foreign or domestic car ?".

    ** I had just bought the car couple of days earlier and was preparing/servicing it for our pending nearly 3000 mile drive across the US (SoCal to Baltimore, MD) I've probably recounted on some other thread here before.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
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  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So, you actually expected a parts person to have heard of a make of vehicle that went extinct a solid 30-years before you went in asking for parts, and about 9-years before YOU were born (at the time)?


    Everyone here needs to remember, we love our cars. To everyone else, they are appliances.
     
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  20. I like when folks complain about parts people. Like thay are supposed to know the front suspension for my 63 Ford is actually a 70s era gm.
    I have zero problems with parts cause I tell them exactly what I’m looking for.
    I also made a detailed list of all part numbers used during my build. Super easy to give them a number
     
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  21. Scruffy49
    Joined: Sep 23, 2018
    Posts: 29

    Scruffy49

    Try building/driving a flathead 6. Not one automotive machine shop in my area will touch them. “If we mess up your block we can’t replace it” is what I keep hearing. My antique tractor guy said he’d build it, warranty his work, even do the pulling and installing. “They are just dime a dozen combine engines... piece of cake.”

    Our family has always had wooden boats. The “experts” died off decades ago... Childhood neighbor restored horse drawn equipment. All of which was wood based... problem solved.

    Think outside the box.
     
  22. ... not to mention the occasion also being a first visit here from country +/-6000 miles away. ;)
    Of course, I've since become to understand that the experience, knowledge or even interest to learn ones chosen occupation are not prerequisite and over the recent decades have become even less important to get hired in many fields, but especially retail.
    It seems almost opposite, like less you know or try to exhibit interest, better chances you might have.
    Kind of like in that good ol' USSR, "We don't need skills, we need lemmings. And lot's of them." :eek:
    Just yesterday I had to go to one of those National-chain Home & Garden mega-stores and I soon observed that even for a busy day like Saturday, there appeared to be more "employees" than customers, most (employees) seem to either just have casual conversations with each other or "acting" like they're busy organizing/shuffling shelf items. I even saw one first quickly glancing around for lack of witness' and then just "accidentally":rolleyes: drop a bunch of stuff from shelf so he could keep himself looking busy for awhile. :(

    Well, for me, wifes and my DDs are appliances.
    In fact, when some have asked if I love (???) my (latest) DD truck, I've usually replied by asking if they "love" their refrigerator or stove.
    Although, there apparently are individuals who profess to "love" some of their appliances, including computers, telephones, etc, so I could see them being enamored by refrigerator or garage door opener. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
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  23. When I graduated from high school (58) we had a trade school , a few years later they closed it. I just heard from the alumni association there reopening it.
    The school was Boystown Nebraska.
     
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  24. IMG_1512.JPG IMG_1514.JPG IMG_1513.JPG

    I actually do love my fridge. And my stove too. I’ve had them longer than my wife, my kids, my house or my car.




    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  25. :)
    Reminds me of my first "house" (in which the garage and on the driveway I built my Roadster back in those days) in Riverside 30+ years ago. The only in-use house appliance was a large '50s Kelvinator always completely filled with Classic Coca-Cola cans with one smaller shelf reserved for beer. :rolleyes:
    Visitors (from around the world) always wanted to photograph it with its door open, just like in your pictures. :D
     
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  26. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    Many industries are having the same problem. The door hardware world has the same problem. If it doesn't jump out of the box, install and adjust its self, we sold them a piece of a junk. Yet when we show up to scope out the problem it's an installation issue 99% of the time.
     
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  27. 6-bangertim
    Joined: Oct 3, 2011
    Posts: 408

    6-bangertim
    Member
    from California

    This thread reminded me that I had learned a lesson in DEMOGRAPHICS 4 years ago! At this time then, I was wrapping up an under-hood restoration on my sister's '65 Mustang, while she was in her final weeks of life. It was her FIRST car, daily driven for 20+ years with a 289-4bbl, 4-speed. A year into her cancer fight, I pushed to get the car back on the road, back to its original glory. A couple mechanical issues and a busy family life stalled the car in their driveway for the past 6 years. July 5, 2014, my BIL agreed to pulling the engine to clean and repaint the mill, and the bay, correct the sins of previous mechanics. Worked every day I could on it, with weekend help from my BIL. Back up n running a month before she passed - my rolling TRIBUTE to her!

    I learned over a couple months that my old hometown od Chula Vista, Ca. (200,000+, middle and upper income) was NO PLACE FOR OLD CARS. No independent parts stores, all chains... zero luck finding brass freeze plugs or a clutch dummy shaft, decent hardware selections. Not even the NAPA was worth 2 shits for hardware or brass plugs. My biggest score was a banjo fitting from Pep Boys for the Edelbrock carb!

    The next city north of us (National City) is half the size, more low and middle income residents who drive older cars longer. Tons of new and used car delears, and supporting automotive businesses to support them. NAPA store had a box heaping full of brass freeze plugs! Clutch rebuilder had the needed 'dummy shaft'. Fastner supply house had the cheap bolts I needed for alignment pins for stabbing the 4-speed.

    Kragen's wharehouse store in NC is AWESOMENESS! Weatherhead fitting bins are well stocked. Correct sway bar bushings for the Musting (3 different sizes of bars) in stock. Composition head gaskets for my Chevy 235, starter and altinator for GF's '99 Subaru - IN STOCK!

    I an blessed to live in El Cajon, home to E&M AUTO PARTS, opened in 1946. 70% of their stock is geared towards old cars, perhaps the LAST true 'parts house' in San Diego county - with catalogs on the counter, and gents who know how to read them, then go to the computer to get a price! They WILL order a $2.50 seal kit for a Chevelle caliper, have it in the next morning. If a part is still available, they can find it and get it in. NOT cheap, but somtimes worth every nickle to trade with them!

    Like in real estate, location, location, LOCATION! Lower-income areas might hold the parts and skills we need. Let your fingers do the walking in the yellow pages, internet. KNOW where the wharehouse stores are in your area. Delvelop a GOOD rapport with the better counter-people, old enough to know how to hit the books, go the extra mile for your needs, or offer options to investigate - TRADE WITH THEM!!!
     
  28. I don't often post on the main board because I spend so much time in one of the social groups (52-59 Ford), I have got to say I have been on both sides of the situation the OP laments.

    In the late 80s, early 90s, I worked at a Pep Boys in Woodbridge, VA, and I can remember that even in the big chain box store back then I had to learn the parts books - no computers. One day a fella comes in, saunters up to the counter and declares, "I need a water pump for a 350 Chevy!" I then asked him what car/truck it was in as I went to the book, but before I could even finish my first question he scolded, "They're all the same boy, just give me the water pump." By that time I had been in the know long enough to learn a few things, so I decided to oblige the man's request. I cannot remember what I grabbed off the shelf but if memory serves it was a water pump that either had a shaft size not too common or maybe something odd with the pulley mount. The odd thing was that he opened the box, looked at it, and then said to me, "That's it - now that wasn't so hard was it, son?"

    He came back in a few hours later - blushing red all over.

    -------
    My latest foray into finding local shops that will do specialty labor like what has been described concerns these simple sun visors. I have not lived in the Cincinnati area too long, so there was no luxury of contacts, long-standing relationships, etc.


    They are for a 1955 Ford Fairlane. I had installed the headliner myself, and when I had ordered the material the company sent two pieces just for the sun visors to match. I called several shops in the Cincinnati area. I e-mailed a few others as well so that I could send pictures. Basically the work involved taking my supplied material and covering the existing padding on visor boards. No repair work, no damage anywhere, no parts to replace, etc. No stainless steel trim (I had removed that to install later). If I had a heavy duty stitcher I could have done it myself. After the phone calls and the e-mails, only 3 of the 9 or so shops returned any contact. Most had said the work was too difficult to perform. repeat: most had said the work was too difficult to perform. 4 of the businesses kept referring me to what they described as the best in the area. So, I called that company one more time, hoping to get an answer and finally someone was on the phone. They said for me to bring them down to take a look at them so I asked their hours and decided to take the 45 minute trip to the shop. When I arrived, no one was there even though the hours on the sign said they should be. I waited 15 minutes. Two old men were behind the shop cutting firewood. I asked them about the shop and they commented to me, "Those people come in when they feel like it."

    Got back in my vehicle, called the shop from their own parking lot, and got no answer so I left a message. I figured well, the guy told me when to come, had to be an emergency or something. Nope. Later on the next day he returns my message with a phone call and just simply says he didn't come in that day until 11 am. Okeydokey. I described the visors to him to get some idea of an estimate. He says, "$175 each."

    No thanks.

    Of the 3 shops that returned contact, one local guy says he can do both for $100. I arrange a visit. He was about my age, but examined the material, my visors, explained what he would do and how he would do it. I dropped it all off and shook his hand. Two weeks later he called me to let me know they were done. Went to the shop, examined the visors, was very happy, handed him $100, and thanked him for his customer service.

    Most of the work on the car I have done myself, down to the body work, 100% of the paint, etc. You can see all of this stuff on www.hotrodreverend.com - there is a very large blog with pics and videos. You can subscribe if you like.
     
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  29. stanlow69
    Joined: Feb 21, 2010
    Posts: 7,348

    stanlow69
    Member Emeritus

    As being an upholsterer, the sun visors are the hardest part of an interior to perform. You either know how to do them Correctly or you don`t. To see if an upholsterer is any good, have them do your visors, if they look good, have them do the rest of the work. If not, find another shop to do the work.
     
    gearhead9663 and David Gersic like this.
  30. I do all my own work on my cars, but visors would be tough. I was able to find a NEW pair (had to use my old hardware) for around $105 on eBay. This is for a '59 Ford and colors were limited, but sometimes the parts are out there. No doubt they were made off-shore, but look great.
     
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