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Hot Rods Dumb question regarding a Cagle Fuel Pressure Regulator

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by zz29, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    Hi; again, doing something but have little expertise. Troubleshooting why not getting enough fuel. Took fuel pump out (Mallory Series 70), opened it up, looks good, no debris, nothing broken, etc. This setup has a Cagle Variable Pressure Regulator. I tried opening it to see if the diaphragms were bad or there was something weird but when I popped open the first part (the one you see in the pic held by three Allen bolts where the vacuum hooks up), and thick oil oozed out so I didn't quite remove it and just put the bolts back. Are these regulators supposed to be filled with oil? I assumed only gasoline went in it. Looked online at other regulators and they don't seem to require oil. It's springs and diaphragms. Downloaded the patent for the Cagle and couldn't find a mention of oil. I guess that could be the issue if it's not supposed to have oil. Thanks again for helping out a rookie.
     

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  2. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,286

    Bandit Billy
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    These round regulators come with a variety of different brand names but they have one thing in common. They are garbage. Put a holley 12-804 on it.

    Besides with a name like Cagle it could lead to increased pressure over time. :rolleyes:
     
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  3. Put a new, better regulator on it
    That one looks like it’s old and worn out, cagles might help “ tighten” thinge up

    Hook up a fuel pressure gauge and confirm pressures
     
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  4. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 6,540

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    That thing looks terrible. No wonder your engine is afraid of it .
     
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  5. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    Thanks; but would a regulator ever have oil inside? Is that odd?


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  6. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    And this Cagle is a Variable pressure. The Holley doesn’t read like it’s variable pressure, it’s adjustable. I think there’s a difference.


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  7. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,286

    Bandit Billy
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    Oh, you thought I would actually answer your question...I charge extra for that :cool:
    Free this time. Super odd. I have never taken one apart, I have removed a lot of them and thrown them away. I can't think of a good "why" there is oil in there.

    Do you have a filter in line between that reg and the pump?, you need to check it. Maybe that oil came from somewhere else and that is the problem?

    Just saw your latest post, the Holley is adjustable from 1 to 4 pounds, they make others that will handle different ranges but that one is common for our cars on this site. "Variable"? I have no idea except maybe that is how "adjustable" translates from Taiwanese.
     
  8. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    I changed the fuel filter; old didn’t look bad but debris came out of it. The Cagle seems to be unique because it has 2 diaphragms and it self-adjusts fuel pressure depending on the demand of the engine. Idling, low psi; starting or accelerating, higher psi. This car has a Flathead with 2 2-barrel Weber carbs going into a Scot blower. I don’t know what I was hoping to achieve by opening it, not like I have spare parts to fix it.


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  9. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,286

    Bandit Billy
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    I have that Holley 12-804 on my flathead, 471 blower and a trio of 97's so we are working on the same kinda stuff. Add a good low reading fuel pressure gauge that reads from 1 to 10 pounds. Dial it is around 2.5 to 3.
    upload_2018-9-20_15-49-23.png
    Im not crazy about how this one looks but it works well.
     
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  10. Rocket Scientist Chris
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 602

    Rocket Scientist Chris
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Inside the Cagle fuel regulator! :)

    Take the top off
    [​IMG]

    Close up of the underside of the upper diaphragm
    [​IMG]

    Remove the middle body
    [​IMG]

    Close ups of the lower diaphragm
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The poppet
    [​IMG]

    Poppet parts
    [​IMG]

    Not a lot to it! The “oil” the original poster saw was probably dissolved diaphragms. I have another one of these regulators in its original box from the mid 70’s. It says it”ll work with gasohol. But, most probably not the vicious stuff we have these days! :(


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  11. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
    Member

    Those type of regulators are useless as the rubber dissolves and turns to "goo".
     
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  12. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,286

    Bandit Billy
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    Thus my original post. When I made my appointment at local Supertune, David Chun a legend around these parts, said he wouldn't touch it if it had one of those regs on it. Lol.
     
  13. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    Aargh!!! These are great!! I didn’t see them until I opened mine, should’ve checked first. No oil in yours for sure. Mine on the top part had oil but it was more like a glob of thick oil. I wiped it all off. Took the whole thing apart and nothing is torn or broken. It was simple. Carefully put it all back together. Then since I don’t know what I’m doing I rigged it up to a $12 PSI gage from the car store and ran gas through it. I get a steady 1.5 PSI. of course I didn’t have the vacuum hooked up so I couldn’t test that part. Tomorrow I’m gonna put it back in the car and see if he cleaning made any difference. I thought I took a picture of the oil goop but I didn’t. [​IMG][​IMG]Thanks so much for the pics. [​IMG]


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  14. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    I’ve read a lot of those negative opinions and others about what a great regulator it is. Just figured this was the setup in the car so just trying to make it work. If I’m still having an issue, next step is my trusty speedshop where they can figure it out.


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  15. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,286

    Bandit Billy
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    Whatever works and works well is really all that is important.
     
  16. Rocket Scientist Chris
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 602

    Rocket Scientist Chris
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    ZZ29 - A correctly functioning Cagle regulator should give high pressure at zero manifold vacuum (wide open throttle) and reduced pressure at high manifold vacuum (idle). So in your test set-up, you should be seeing a pressure closer to what the electric pump puts out (no vacuum = high pressure). To closer duplicate an “in car” system, you”ll need an orifice in the output tube similar to the carb float valve. With a hand vacuum pump, you can then vary the vacuum and see the pressure reduce or increase. Pretty neat! :)
     
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  17. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    Wait... so you’re saying that when I was testing it, since not hooked to the vacuum, the regulator is like, not working. Seems like 1.5 psi is not very much pressure for a pump, that is if the gage is setup correctly. Thanks


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  18. Rocket Scientist Chris
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 602

    Rocket Scientist Chris
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    ZZ29 - Your regulator is working because “zero vacuum = high or full pressure”. To see the pump’s full delivery pressure, it needs a “load” to push against. That’s were the orifice in the output tube comes in. Or you can just put your thumb over the end and vary the “squirt”. You should then see the gauge read “high” and “low” depending on your squirt cycle. Now with vacuum applied to the regulator, you should see a lower “high” pressure during your squirt cycles. Hope this helps explain things! :)
     
  19. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,442

    goldmountain

    I had a problem with fuel delivery also. Gas wasn't getting past the fuel regulator so I took it apart and thought that I'd fixed the problem. Later, it started to leak at the regulator. My neighbor gave me another one and as I went to install it; discovered that my real problem was that I put it in backwards. Real dumb.

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  20. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    I think it’s starting to make sense. I’m going to set it up again tomorrow. I’ll try the thumb at the end truck and see how the pressure varies.


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  21. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    That would be exactly what I’d do, put something in backwards.


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  22. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    Just to break this down to 2nd grade level for me. You mean once I hook it up, pump and regulator, the tube where the gasoline is squirting out, I cover that and the pressure read on the regulator should vary? Like go up to 4-6psi.


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  23. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    Ok. Got it. Did the PSI test again on my rig. 1.5-2psi with the regulator; if I pinch the outflow from the regulator, pressure spikes to 6psi. So it seems pump and regulator are functioning fine. Tomorrow I will install back in the car and see if I got lucky.


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  24. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    All right! Exciting morning, then not so much. Put pump and regulator back in, re-wired it, reconnected all. (Sucks to work under car hu?). Car started right away. So excited. Gas was leaking a bit, fixed that. Put car down. Started car again no problem, called my neighbor, let’s go for a ride. Car drove great for about 4 blocks, then sputtered, hesitated, died, restarted while moving then died and that was it. Dead. Had to have it towed back. Seems something is stopping fuel. A couple car guys stopped by seeing the car on the road and provided ideas. Maybe something g with gas cap or lone obstruction. Will start looking into that next.


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  25. zz29
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 258

    zz29
    Member

    Car started again and runs for about a minute but as I try and take it around the block it idle as irregularly, sputters and dies. Then it’ll start and then die again. Definitely feels like a fuel issue, maybe need a new regulator. I think I’m just gonna take to my mechanic.


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  26. Rocket Scientist Chris
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 602

    Rocket Scientist Chris
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    ZZ29 - Don’t give up, just yet! More than likely your fuel issue stems from contamination. What ever was in the first fuel filter you mention in your earlier post is probably still in the system. Recheck your pump, again and be sure it’s pumping. Replace the filter but this time put one on the pump inlet side and one on the outlet side. Check the regulator again, too. You don’t want anything going into the carbs. If any contaminants show up in the pump inlet filter, you’ll need to clean the tank and lines. Hope this helps! :)
     
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