Technical Mild rant: anyone else finding it hard?

Well, I can only wish your assumption was closer to reality. More than anything, I probably qualify within your last sentence.
Why else would I be at the shop 6-7 days a week, 12-15 hrs per each working on other peoples vintage cars, instead of enjoying drives in mine ?
Yes, I feel fortunate having met a fair number of quite interesting, some quite known and/or wealthy vintage car guys/collectors over the decades in this hobby and business and I'm grateful for having earned honors/opportunities to work on some their cars* too, but due to self-imposed/-inflicted(?) choices, it hasn't made me rich or famous.

*(Publicly) listing most could make some seriously doubt my honesty or perhaps just s**t their pant(ie)s.

 

RA is the king of the re-box specials. I picked up rear wheel cylinders for my '59 Ford for less than $5 each. Raybestos, Wagner, they all carried the same Ford-based part reference. But they seem to be okay. I wish they had my lower ball joints, had to get some offshore crap that the stud needed a mule team to rotate it so the cotter pin was in a good spot. I would have jumped at $70 for the lowers after I saw the crap a Ford parts house sold me.

 

My local paper, The Kansas City Star send me a renewal a couple of years ago. They now wanted about $230 for a year. This is for a newspaper (euphemistically speaking, of course) that is about 75% advertisements and is thin enough that you can hold the entire Monday paper up to the light and light shows through. The charge extra for the funny papers, too. Mostly, I don't like their political position either.

 

After reading through these responses from all over the country and a few from overseas, a lot of great points have been made. Our beloved hobby is seeing yet another transition (as time and technology always brings) ... and it doesn't sit well with a lot of people. Those with the Mom and Pop Shops of yesterday either get put out of business due to a lack of local support, an inability to compete with the huge aftermarket suppliers, retire or pass away. Kids would rather sit on their asses in front of a 2-inch screen or a video game than hang out in the garage with dad (or the rare motorhead mom) and have no interest in keeping their parents' part of Americana alive so those businesses we have always relied on to help us put these rides back on the road are harder and harder to find.

Instead of talking to your buddy Ron about where he got his radiator recored, since he passed away last year now you have to turn into the Charlie's Angel of The Internet and hope your search terms bring up the right place that can do the job properly at a price you can afford. When you discover "that place" is 375 miles from your front door, has 5-star Reviews written by screen names like FingerTightJoe and HalfAssHarry and that it's going to cost $125 each way to ship it back and forth, it's easy to get overwhelmed and decide to recore it yourself after watching a few YouTube videos. All of us here are fairly comfortable with the internet so it's actually easier for us than that guy down the road with the '32 coupe who doesn't even own a computer.

One of the bigger benefits of being a message board member usually include formalized lists of reputable vendors who are still around, or newer ones that members have taken a chance on and been impressed by. However, those mentions usually only seem to happen here in response to particular thread questions (unless I've just been reading under a rock and missed it).

I own one of "those internet businesses" which was born in between the decline of local hot rod shops and the rapid (forced) acceleration of online services. Out in the boonies of cow and corn country in northwest Tennessee, I had a storefront in my dedicated shop for the first few years. Despite my sign being 8 feet long, 4 feet wide and 10 feet up in the air visible even to the residents of the International Space Station, the only thing the locals apparently could NOT read were the hours of operation. They'd swing by after Sunday services, pound on my door at 5:30 on Saturday mornings, or just stop by randomly and want to watch me work. Those who wanted quotes always received them ... but rarely came back when they learned it would cost more than a couple cans of Krylon. Since it had always had an internet presence that brought in a LOT more work than walk in customers, I took my signs down and went to By Appointment Only. It was a great decision. The four people (yessss FOUR) locals who have hired me since have actually turned into good customers. Thank God for the hundreds of others worldwide who read about me somewhere or stumbled on my website and took a chance or I would have starved years ago and gone back to workin' for lawyers.

There are still a few of us out here in the automotive world who value your business, do amazing work and aren't expecting you to finance a private island in the Caribbean. You just have to look a little harder and be more general in your google search terms to find them. You might even have to hunt down FingerTightJoe and get some details on his experience with the vendor you're interested in ... but he's easier to find now than going to the library to look through a few hundred phone books like it used to be. (Keep in mind though that online Reviews can be written by people who have never even been customers so investigate as much as you can and make sure you're comfortable. You can't even assume the Better Business Bureau has accurate information now because the only businesses they verify PAY THEM for a listing. I don't know about you, but paid endorsements don't convince me to hire anybody or buy anything. Reading the same name over and over again on Great Job! threads does though.)

I gotta get my butt back to work. This is a good thread -- keep it up guys!!!

 

Back about 1986, I dropped and shattered a taillight lens for my '63 Impala. I called several wrecking yards in the San Jose area, they all had lenses available in the $20 to $30 price range (expensive in 1986). So I called Courtesy Chevrolet and sure enough, they had 3 brand new ones in stock, $6.95 each. I ran down and bought all three. You never know what they might have.

 

Mark,
I've used the Meineke guy on rte 9 on the Lakewood/Howell border, around the corner from you, for custom exhaust work. He's been there forever and is a motor head.

 

There's a reason I maintained an '80 Grumman Kurbmaster (Chevy P-30 chassis, 350/350) for my work truck that ran 7 days a week. I could work on it, all of it. Rebuilt the engine, transmission, brakes, steering, whatever. No sensors, computers, upgrades, recalls, lawsuits or other bullshit. Retired 2 years ago and sold it to an old buddy and now it's his best friend. Between the tools I carried with me and a spare ignition module, we always made it home. Fuck new cars and the people who sell them.

 

I wonder if the fact that most of the cars here are 50+ years old has anything to do with parts scarcity at local stores.

 

The Harley factory screwed up big time on this one. They could have made a lot of money, an ENORMOUS amount of money by continuing to make parts for all of the Harleys they made over the last 100 years

 

Try getting old stuff in New Zealand,,,,,

 

I suppose, on the surface, it would seem that way. I dunno. I think the machinery, the patterns, the floor space required for all of this manufacturing, not to mention warehousing all of the JD cylinders, VL oil pumps and Hummer pistons would be more costly than the potential sales. I doubt this has escaped the bean counters at HD, not to mention FoMoCo, GM and the rest. Probably best to let S&S build Panheads and Baker build transmissions

 

You don't have to buy a single damn part for your Harley at the dealer if you don't want to.... There's plenty of vendors who'll be happy to sell you whatever you want, and probably for less money.

 

Our hobby has transformed from the old days where it was populated with specialists who relied on word of mouth or a add in Hemmings to reach the public. Every town had mechanics who could fix most anything. Parts were ordered and your car might be down for a week until the parts arrived.
Most all of you age 60 and above will remember those days.
Now it’s 1-800 send it to me and why did it take 3 days to get here. Despite rants on here about Speedway or Harbor Freight and how poor the quality is people still buy it. Rock Auto has it’s share of tales of woe.
I live in a town of less than 3000 but I can get any job done from glass cutting to welding to steering box rebuilding done all within 30 miles. I’m willing to drive those 30 miles although I have read comments on here from posters saying driving 30 miles to look at old cars or parts is too far and takes too much time.
Last comment which is a bit of speculation based on years of observation.
98 percent of the readers of this forum will complain they are not paid enough at their job that they drive to for 8 or more hours in a building they don’t pay any expense on and then drive home and complain about the outrageous labor prices for service or parts costs from a business that is in another building that the owner pays rent/upkeep on plus maintain a inventory.
I would suggest that everyone try running a small auto related business from your garage/basement/shed on a part time basis and gain a little insight on what it’s like to keep it going.
Not a internet business either. Has to be one with direct contact with customers. It may change the way you look at your local specialists and auto related stores.

 

My last retail parts job, I was the only guy who was willing (in my store, anyway) to deal with customers who wanted parts for old cars. None of the other counter guys or the manager was willing to put any effort into it. As the assistant manager, it really wasn't my job to do, either, but customers are customers, their money fills the till just as well as the guy with the '17 Tahoe. Besides, our outfit was (is) a family chain, and somewhat racing oriented at the main store. There wasn't much in the way of mechanical stuff we couldn't get or didn't actually HAVE at the main store, for practically anything with wheels... it just took some research and lots of paper catalogs. I could get most of the parts to do the entire brake system for my '56 Fairlane right off the shelf in my OWN store.... if I worked those catalogs. Depending on the computer in the store for that information was a waste of time; it's program cut off at forty years, and drops a year every new year. Maybe they've improved that, but I doubt it. Why should they? BTW; I like to use RockAuto's site to get part numbers and then take THOSE numbers to the store (or cross reference them online BEFORE going over there) to save time and frustration!

 

Perhaps they should follow example set by Ferrari.
For decades "the factory" couldn't care less about supporting older vintage models with parts (or services), which led to a vibrant cottage industry all across the globe, but mostly in Europe and UK, producing just about anything mechanical, many with improved, better than OEM quality.

These products include tool room copies of complete (air cleaner-to-oil drain plug) engines, transaxles and just about all the parts that make them, etc.. and even at insanely expensive prices all were extremely welcomed by owners of older ('50s, '60s & '70s) models for which the factory spares have been exhausted already years or decades before.

Eventually (10-15 years ago) "the factory" decided they want a piece of that action and set out to put some copyright legal squeeze on some of these producers, forcing them to sell all their production to or thru "the factory" who then put their own stampings with papal blessing and sprinkling of holy water on these pieces and sell them as "authentic" factory components & parts at three, four or more times the money.

And if your (vintage) Ferrari is not "factory certified" to have all "authentic, factory certified or produced/stamped components, it will not be accepted to any factory sponsored event anywhere in the world.
Mind you that depending on the model, "the factory" will charge the owner for this certification anywhere between $5K to $25K and that's not including any, if needed, aforementioned "insanely" priced replacement components, parts or services to R & R them, which in some cases "the factory" may require the car to be sent to them in Italy.
And apparently a lot of owners seem to be willing to participate with all of it.

Thanks a lot for reminding of that dreaded "Horrid Fright".
I can still recall (and shiver) realizing the end of our hobby and world nearing soon when such business models started to become accepted & gain popularity.
And this f**king interweb with its online forums and shopping options didn't really help any either.
It just introduced us much more crap with easier(?) access to it, kind of like those TV infomercials decades ago.

 

Lonejacklarry hit the nail on the head.
I left my hometown where I was in business for 40 years and moved here in Arizona. The best thing I did was ask my house painter who he would recomend for a tire shop and so on.
Get to know some locals and ask them for recomendations.

 

Maybe Ford needs to follow the Furrari business model.
Then the ill fitting aftermarket repair panels could be blessed with "genuine Ford" authenticity.

 

A problem in the parts business is the proliferation of makes and models and the "basic" equipment on them. In the 1950's you had Ford, Chevy, etc. By the mid '60's Chevy had the Corvair, Chevy II, Chevelle, and full size. Each of those had sedans (2&4 doors), hard tops (2&4 doors) convertibles and station wagons. Also was it a Chevy II or a Nova, Chevelle or Malibu, and full size had Biscayne, Bel Air, Impala and Caprice. It was getting a little harder for the parts guy to just walk back and pull the right thing from memory. Now to get the right muffler bearing you have to know the color of the exterior door handle.

Another problem is the big box parts stores. They came in and used the little guy's profit makers as loss leaders to get the customers into their stores. For stores or junkyards space is a cost, they can't to use it for things that don't bring relatively steady, predictable revenue.

People, being what they are, think they are worth dollars but you should provide for them for nickels and dimes. They have no clue about the costs of running a small shop. Its only an hour job, what do I care about your rent, electric, water and sewer, heat and taxes. Not my business how long it took or what it cost for you to get the skills necessary. The cost, amortization and maintenance of your equipment is your problem. Just do the job for less than what would be considered a fair wage.
From reading on this forum I get the feeling that most of us are willing to give fair money for a fair job, but that doesn't mean we won't shop for the best price vs. quality.

 

Parts stores don't stock a lot like they used to since everything is MRP and demand driven. There is an Advance by me that is the area central warehouse as well, doesn't mean they have what I need on hand. Sometimes they can order it, but the last thing I wanted they said their system only goes back to 1964.

 

This is probably already mentioned in the three pages already here but...……. During my 34 build it really became evident that counter folks are not "real car people", they are "counter help". Nothing wrong with that at all, they hire in needing a job and if they can work a computer, look half way bright, can converse intelligently, only have one or two piercings, show up for work on time and stay all day, have some bare skin showing through all the tattoo's, they get the job.
The last straw for me was back when relining the jag brakes in my 34, back about 10 years ago during my build when I went into the new Auto Zone and asked the kid where the brake pad adhesive was and he went to the counter/computer and asked, "what year car". It wasn't his fault. There's no way he could know what shelf it was on in a new store he had just hired in. That's just the way it is now days. So I looked around, found a new Advance store, mostly older guys in it, that have been doing that job for years and get along great in there.

 

"asked the kid where the brake pad adhesive was"

There actually is such a thing?

 

yup, they use it on later model cars to try to prevent squeaking.

 

Except most "aftermarket" parts for "Furraris" made by independent cottage industry (which I consider myself as a small part of) in general have better fit and/or improved quality to what OEM was.
In that world, you just can't get away with making "cheap" imitations (although some occasionally try), especially when that market is also extremely limited and due to (perceived ?) value of the cars, demands/expects much much more than that of Ferd or General Managers, et al.

 

Can't say I have ever heard it called a brake pad adhesive before even though that's what it is. Every type I have ever seen is called brake anti squeal something. Sometimes it helps when we use the common terminology when asking for something.

 

I know exactly what you mean. I've yet to come across any road going automobile equipped with "Emergency or E-Brake", but apparently a lot of others have. All I've ever seen came or come with a "Parking Brake". Weird, ain't it ?

 

I have an OT Porsche and i will say, Porsche does it right, they have a "Porsche Classic" parts division that actively reproduces a lot of parts for the various models Porsche has sold since the 50's. I can roll into the dealership and order dash trim, or undertrays or whatever for my 30 year old 944. Sometimes even for a reasonable price.

As for services... well thats a hard market these days. Customers are at once cheap and expect the world and want it yesterday...

 

Andy, you are exactly right! This failure to train people for the trades (all trades) has, at least in part, by the efforts of schools, read that high schools and colleges, to encourage high school students to go on to "college" instead of trade schools. Not all schools were guilty but many were. Leading educators around the country seemed to think that a college education was the only way to go. However, they failed to take into account the need for skilled tradespeople to build and maintain our factories, our roads, our bridges, our rail lines, buildings of all kinds and our electrical grid nationwide.
I am not a "skilled tradesman" as such but when much younger, I worked for a building contractor who built homes, repaired and remodeled homes, Sorority and Fraternity houses, etc. He also had a cabinet shop in which I worked also. I'm technically not a carpenter or a cabinetmaker but the skills I learned then have helped me build numerous items and have helped me also to fix and maintain my own property and that of friends. I may never have done any of that without the knowledge And skills I gained as a result of working for Fred and his skilled crew at Forks Sash and Door in East Grand Forks, Mn.
I guess it is safe to say that all of us on the HAMB are car nuts ! Many of us have some automotive skills; some have lots of automotive related skills (I am a self taught hacker ! )
Let's do what we can to encourage young folks to take up some kind of training in the trades for the benefit of the country!


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When I worked at a parts store, in the previous century, I wanted the customer to ask for a gizmo from a ,then ,forty year old car/truck/ Tractor! It was then a challenge to find the right part. Hell Stevie Wonder can find a part for a new car!


Bones

 

Amen Brother!! You nailed it exactly!


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It took me too long to learn this lesson. I spent so much time helping people with their projects, that my stuff wasn't getting done. I had to make the decision that, at age 75, I had to take care of my own needs first.
Bob