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Technical 1939 ford 3 spd to a Zephyr overdrive??????

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 1950mercsled, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    Just seeing if anyone has ever adapted 32-51 ford 3 spd toploader to a zephyr overdrive? Thought it was a brilliant Idea till I saw that it would need and adapter....?!?!?
     

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    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  2. 42merc
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 894

    42merc
    Member

    It's been done. A fair amount of work, both welding & machine .
    Do a search on The Ford Barn, it was discussed at length a while back. Last year -maybe ?
    Your picture is missing the OD adapter, which doesn't fit the early trans anyway.
     
  3. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    Yes also does anyone have the of adapter. I am going to have a guy make one out of aluminum.
     
  4. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    Disregard that "of" in front of the adapter
     

  5. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    This if that wasn't clear
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Fred A
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 290

    Fred A
    Member
    from Encino, CA
    1. Upholstery

    I had such a trans in recent years but it lacked the reverse gear kickout of the factory overdrives. Otherwise the '51 Merc overdrive for open drive is easier to find. Sold the top shift OD I had to Al Zannino who does transmission work here in So Cal. The design shortcomings probably limited it's appeal. In the sixties I used the Zephyr ODs with the V8-60 rear gears for a nice set of gears. Took about 10" out of the torque tube. All that work for a top shift? Must have something better to do. For some strange reason I still hoard the '42-'48 Zephyr transmissions plus a couple of the ODs. Good Luck Sled: Fred A
     
  7. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    Fred would you happen to have an extra OD adapter I could just barrow for measurements?
     
  8. Fred A
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 290

    Fred A
    Member
    from Encino, CA
    1. Upholstery

    The adapter as you call it may not be as you expect it to be. The Zephyr trans case is quite different in the rear, not just a side shift case with an adapter. The transmission main shaft is part of the OD. I previously used a Hurst shifter to get it through the floor. Borrow? Quite a task to separate just the intermediate plate from the output even if it's on the bench in front of you. Makes me think you've missed the complexity. Do you have the rest of the ingredients? Years ago guys would harvest the trans gears and toss the rest. That's where I'd get the spare overdrives as I burned one up on a long cruise. BW ODs were lube sensitive and would seize the planetary. Good Luck: Fred A
     
  9. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    Ya I know it's quite different in the back on each transmission. I am going to have someone make that center adapter on a cnc mill based off of the old one That will have the same pattern as the 39 case.
     
  10. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    Does anyone have a breakdown of the overdrive unit. Or know where to find one?
     
  11. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Is this what you are looking for? Van Pelt Sales can help you with your questions.
    upload_2018-9-10_13-24-7.jpeg
     
  12. Fred A
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 290

    Fred A
    Member
    from Encino, CA
    1. Upholstery

    [QUOTE=". I am going to have someone make that center adapter on a cnc mill based off of the old one That will have the same pattern as the 39 case.[/QUOTE]
    You're in a room full of elephants. Do you have the rest of the parts, importantly the main shaft which is part of the OD. A look at the Zephyr trans case will show a large hole in your plans. At some point it will become obvious. Still. Good Luck: Fred A
     
  13. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    Are these the parts your talking about
     

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  14. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    Thanks 39 guy. I forgot about Van Pelts
     
  15. Fred A
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 290

    Fred A
    Member
    from Encino, CA
    1. Upholstery

    "]Are these the parts your talking about"

    Yes, they're part of a basket full of parts that I was concerned about, especially since you seemed to want to borrow some major elements that would be associated with having the overdrive to attach. There is still the shift cover that kicks it out of OD when put into reverse. BWs just hate to go backward. Fred A
     
  16. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    I am missing some and it looks like Van Pelts does only the 49 and later overdrives. Do you know anyone who sell parts for these.
     
  17. Mac VP
    Joined: May 13, 2014
    Posts: 462

    Mac VP
    Member

    I think we may have the LZ overdrive adapter casting. These have the extended mount for the solenoid. You would not want to use this aspect of the adapter.....they require a special solenoid with a longer plunger (and those were only made in 6 volts). All these parts were carefully engineered to work together, including all the remaining pieces such as the trans mainshaft, the lockout rail, and so on.

    Contact us if you want the OD adapter. I don’t want to rain on your parade but you should be aware of the amount of work you may have in order to create the complete transmission you have in mind. I would suggest that since there are some physical differences between the 39 LZ gearbox and the typical 39 Ford gearbox, you’d be developing a much more popular conversion if you worked with the 39 Ford box instead.
     
  18. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 5,117

    Andy
    Member

    Would it be better to try to adapt the top shifter to a merc OD rather than the OD to the early case? That way you would have the reverse kick out.
     
  19. Fred A
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 290

    Fred A
    Member
    from Encino, CA
    1. Upholstery

    I agree with Andy, in that dumping the idea of the early top shift case, perhaps going with a case meant to protect the reverse. The Merc case uses the short shaft solenoid which can use the '56 and later 12V unit. Since I have the Zephyrs, and if the car is wide enough a Hurst adapter can work well. Young and ambitious, going in through the top of a side shift case could be worth looking at. Old and played out, the close ratio T-5 clutters my bench now. Probably why I sold the well engineered '39 top shift trans + overdrive. Haveing Fun: Fred A
     
  20. Thanks for that, I was saving this for a 32 sedan that I am collecting parts for, and if it doesn't sell then I may still use it. we shall see, I believe the available repop Zephyr gears will fit in the overdrive case as long as you have all the overdrive parts. I have it bookmarked on my lap top but I found some one that will take the original solenoids, and rebuild them to be 12 volt.
     
    cactus1 likes this.
  21. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    some stuff:
    exploded view is '49 Merc, which except for torque tube flange and gear ratios in trans is the same. Examine the part numbers for the OD internal parts...many of them are the earlier Lincoln parts. Trans case is early Lincoln, too.
    I would do this by doing a traditional column shift conversion and using the entire setup as is. doing a strong and fully functional case conversion would be pretty difficult.
    The Solenoid and governor stuff all look like they were designed specifically to interfere with early Ford chassis.
    I look at my V12 trans occasionally and reflect "My, that's heavy!"
    The OD combined with the V8 60 4.44 gears and Lincoln first and second would be a near perfect ratio spread for a hotrod...but I'd do it with lincoln tran gears and the current torque tube OD made by Mitchell.
     
  22. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    This is all good information fellas! I am a young guy that knows (I believe) quite a bit about traditional hot rods wanting to build As 1940s period correct of a hot rod as possible that's the only reason I don't want to go with a 4 spd or a t-5. I'm just looking for the best drivability. Is there any old toploader case that will fit an overdrive without a lot of modification?
     
    Nailhead A-V8 likes this.
  23. I have heard of being able to take a 39 case and modifying it to adapt the overdrive to it, but I have never seen one done. I would imagine the machine work would be tough. You would have to find a machinist that knows these old transmissions and would want to take on a challenge.

    Another option is to find an old Mystery shifter and adapt it to an original side shift Lincoln trans. They come up for sale on here some times.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  24. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 5,117

    Andy
    Member

    A top shift trans is really not compatible with the OD. The OD needs the side shift 1/r lever to lock the OD in reverse. If the OD is not locked, the car is able to roll when parked. I forgot to put my car in reverse and it rolled back and damaged a car. You would have to set the emergency brake every time it was parked.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  25. lucas doolin
    Joined: Feb 7, 2013
    Posts: 541

    lucas doolin
    Member

    The easiest approach would be to use the complete Lincoln Zephyr side shift transmission + overdrive assembly and shorten the torque tube. Then use a floor shift conversion kit from the 50's. You've got to cut the torque tube anyway and this would be by far the least expensive and most reliable solution. Or use a 5 speed with a flathead adaptor kit and with proper rear end gearing, you'll have the equivalent of overdrive. Just saying.
     
  26. 1950mercsled
    Joined: Oct 10, 2013
    Posts: 89

    1950mercsled
    Member
    from oregon

    So I have heard a couple times now to use a floor shift conversion kit from the 50s. Does someone remake one of those? Or where is the best place to find one? And also what do they look like?
     
  27. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    Isn't there a B/W top loader with overdrive??? Circa...1968-'75? This would be a side shifter, bosses cast in case.
    Buy remove the forks and drop a Jeep T150 shifty tower with cane shifter. Voila! Instant Big Stick, real thing.
     
    Nailhead A-V8 likes this.
  28. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    In the parts for sale section here on the HAMB look for the add from member KingShift. He may have what you need.
    -Dave
     
    Nailhead Jason likes this.
  29. I have an OD unit as well as a Zephyr case sans gears that I'd sell. Purchased it along with a complete Zephyr OD that I have since sold.
     

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