Projects replacement sheet metal versus hand fabricated patch panels

second versus....same as the firstus....henry the 8

 

Now you know why your car has a Mustang gas tank. If you are smart you will redo the ooky metal work and put it back in. Look up Mustang trunk floor patch panels, maybe you can buy what you need ready made. If not it is much easier, and cheaper, to make a neat fringe around the edge and drop the tank into the hole than to make a whole floor which you don't need anyway.

 

The mustang tank was removed, it was rusty & leaking so I bought a new '50 Ford and it will be beneath the trunk floor in the correct location. HRP

 

"What I "know for sure" is that the closer to perfection you get the Harder people look for flaws."

That's a pretty good piece of wisdom.

 

mr "49rat fink" is just grumpy all the time, he has been a multi year mission to bad mouth us, never mentions the name another company , just likes to crab ass about ems.

 

exactly. poor fitting parts make me grumpy. would you say with a straight face that the lower front quarters you sell for 51-52 Chevrolet match an original in the wheelwell and door jamb area? how about the inner rocker piece for the same car.. looks like a tray that drywallers use to put their mud in and does not match the original part at all... not even close.

 

I have used EMS in the past and I intend to use them in the near future,I don't doubt the quality of your trunk repair panels but I am not restoring this car and the 3 pieces to repair it just is not in my budget, I wish it was because I know it would fit perfectly.

The '50 Ford I am working on will need the rockers and a door patch panel, possibly more,I just haven't got that far.

Like I said previously I have recently seen the '57 Ford pieces used and they looked great as was the pieces I have used in the past.

As the administrator of the '54 Ford Club of America web site EMS has been the vendor we recommend and I haven't heard anyone complain about the parts or the service. HRP

 

Yes. I could be very easily put on the same list as 49ratfink however I back up my comments with in construction comparison photos. Not so much to Bash but to inform. No matter the customer or project everyone wants perfection when paying the price. Home builders maybe not so much.
I have asked ems customer service several times before right here on the HAMB why can't we get good crisp corners and edges? Why (one I remember best) is the 57-58 Ford lower front fender patch overall larger than the fender bottom itself and when I did that job maybe 5 years ago the reverse contour that is there in stock form to match the rocker was non existant. Each time I have asked specific questions with back up photos and you may make remarks but you never answer the exact question. I have no doubt you (ems) have many many customers out there that make do with what they get. I just feel that those customers that think going in that they are getting an exact replacement part are the exception like myself where close isn't good enough. When customers would bring me pieces to use on there projects and I point out why I can't or won't it's because I already know when there Body Shop get's the project they are going to blame me for the extra Shop work to get fit and finish. I will not go back into that cross fire.
The Wizzard

 

If you see my 50 sedan build thread youll see that being UK based meant most of the sheetmetal parts were too expensive to be worth it so i fabbed up floors, arches and fenders. I did however buy floor supports and outer rockers from EMS and made inners myself. The time and skills needed to make those 2 bits i didnt possess so purchasing was worth it.

Sent from my SM-G930F using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

With just about any patch panel it is more like a starter kit. You start there and start fixing, fitting, tweaking, the part till it fits. You'll need all the tools and skills just won't take as long to get it right provided they have given you something close.

If you're going to start from scratch the first step is to get to the starter kit then start fixing fitting tweaking the part till it fits.
Sometimes buying the starter kit gets you a big jump on a panel that fits. Other times the starter kit is money pissed away because they are junk.

Recently did a OT job. Patches were available and relativlely cheap, I could have made them but at 4x the cost. they sucked bad when they showed up. Full 1/4s Panels were also available and the quality was beyond superb for after market stuff. So buying the full panels and cutting out what I needed was cheaper and easier in the end. Same project on the other end and one fender needed the entire lower section. The other just needed a lip. So bought a whole fender and cut the lower section off because 3" weld and body work was easier than swapping the fender and then dealing with gaps, cutting in and the usual aftermarket BS. The other side was cheaper to make the easy patch.

Sometimes patches aren't available and we are forced to make the stuff or find a donor. Being able to make the stuff is a good skill.

 

I wouldnt hesitate to buy panels. My time is worth a bit and the price of panels is not as much as my time.
Issue for me is my location (New Zealand) and the bulk of panels means they need to be surface shipped by boat from the states and im impatient.
The below place I was looking at using if I needed panels for my Hudson but so far I have been lucky with none being needed.
https://www.c2cfabrication.com/

Just need to keep in mind they may need to be massaged to fit I guess.

 

I guess that's why nobody looks too close at my junk, it's never nowhere near perfect!

To the guys bitching about fit of replacement panels, just be glad you have them to start with. Last two vehicles I've done had almost no aftermarket support, especially body panels. It's make something else work or fill it full of mud. I don't give a shit what somebody says about my car or my work after I'm gone, I'm going to do the best I can with what I can get to work, even if it isn't 100% accurate. It's a driver, not a museum restoration, there are better representatives out there for the ones that need to be perfect. And my cave man crude cutting and welding may not pass some folk's sniff test, but as long as it's close, it's fine with me. 99% of the folks looking at it don't know what it's supposed to look like anyway.

 

Thank you, I couldn't agree more.

I don't profess to be a a pro body man I'm a hot rodder and like the fact that there are people making sheet metal to save these old cars. HRP

 

Lets get this train back on track. HRP

 

Aint that the truth!
I remember when I used to go to the Detroit Autorama and marvel at the perfection of the cars on display. Then I went to work for a high end shop building those cars for the gold chainers and now I can't help but notice the flaws in even the Riddler cars. I would wish to go back, but then I wouldn't have the skills I have now. There are always trade-offs.

 

There is always going to be someone that finds fault in any car regardless of how well it's built.

I would like to think most of us appreciate a nice comment from our peers but I also realize my cars will never measure up to most arm chair judges and I'm Ok with that. HRP

 

My answer to that is, "You don't have to point them out. I know where they are, I put them there."

 

Yes, for sure! None of my personal cars are even close to my Customer work. I often tell people "it still looks good at 60 M,P,H". I think being a judge at the local Roadster show a few times made me a terrible critic. I often think it's a set back for the Younger generation that think they have show cars till they enter one. I've been read a large menu about that subject. It often starts with "you didn't know what I started with".
The Wizzard

 

I was ask to help judge at a annual antique car show and with the interest in the rat turd cars & trucks I was told to pick two of the best, I questioned how do you pick the best two when there are a lot of cars that look better than junk that look like clown cars?

Then I was told I had to pick 2 new cars, are you joking? I told them if I judge I will pick the cars or trucks that I think look the best, not because of a quota or trophy's for everyone, needless to say I refused to play their game.

This show was well received 30 years ago when it was conceived by a group of guys that knew what it was like to build or restore a car, in recent years a new group of guys that are not car people have taken over and their only interest is their bottom line, to make money and gather as many entrants as possible,so it's open to anyone that pays the entrants fee.

I was told last weekend there were a lot of extremely nice cars that were overlooked so the new cars & RR's got their share of hardware which did not surprise me in the least but when I was told the best Ford award was won by a brand spanking new truck that was still sporting paper tags I was shocked.HRP



As you can imagine I didn't judge or attend the show

 

Static Car Shows are way over rated and now even the Cruze In's are getting that way. Sad change of events over the last 40 years.
The Wizzard

 

With me its all about the time I’m going to have in a piece. A very difficult compound curve I’m buying

 

Mac’s sheet metal is merely a starting point. Much additional work was always needed to make their stuff fit. ...and Model A sheet metal from them was always two gauges thinner. But even so, for complicated shapes it was better than starting out with a flat sheet. For the 51, the floorboard piece from them was not even the correct shape, so I ended up building a patch from flat sheet.

 

Macs gets a lot of their patch panels from Howells.

 

"Model A sheet metal from them was always two gauges thinner."

This would seem to be beyond the pale. No matter how much added work you do, or how well it fits, it will be wrong if it is too thin. It seems odd that someone would make a too-thin repair panel for a collectible car.

 

I have made the pieces I needed .but the were mostly flat.