Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Shoebox/SBF fitment issues

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by Grosen84, Jul 15, 2018.

  1. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    Hello all, I know this swap is a little more modern than what's typically discussed on hamb, but there are numerous people here w/ this swap that haven't had any problems so they say. I bought this car as is, and started looking more closely into it when I yanked on the steering wheel and pulled the shaft from the u-joint under the hood.

    It's a 50 Tudor w/ a 90's mustang engine/AOD/dropped spindles/Volvo steering box installed. Here's what I've noticed that doesn't correlate with what I've been able to find so far. It's using the shoebox-central-style biscuit mount pad, but the PO installed the entire biscuit above the crossmember bracket, instead of sandwiching it. This lead to a clearance problem w/ the header/steering. There is a Volvo steering box installed w/ a splined steering shaft into a single u-joint. The header is so close to the u-joint that a grub screw had to be used in place of a normal bolt to pinch the shaft, which is where my investigation started. I climbed under the car and noticed the reason for putting the entire biscuit on top of the bracket - there's no clearance between the motor and the fatman fab aftermarket steering rod. The PO actually ground out clearance on the transmission bell housing, and the bolt heads are rubbing on the oil pan. I've seen a photo that shows the tie rods bolted onto the rear of the bar, so I'm wondering if it's a matter of the tie rods being bolted on wrong, or if there bar is offset from the mounts and it is possibly installed backwards.

    I will try and get some photos later today. If there is anyone who could take some photos of their SBF swapped shoebox w/ fatman steering/Volvo box, specifically in the mount, steering, and underside clearance, it would be very helpful. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    Here are the photos. Looking closer, there is a rubber bit below the mount bracket, so they may be installed as intended. There's basically no space above the header tube and the steering box to lower it, and it seems the motor needs to move up and slightly back to properly clear the steering. I'm wondering if the previous owner mounted the motor to compensate for the headers he owned, or really just didn't grasp what he was doing. From what I've read to this point, everything should have bolted in fine with a good set of mounts and the Fox pan.
     
  3. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,271

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    A lot of that can be eliminated going back to stock steering. Likely you will need different exhausts if you go back to the stock set up.

    The reason others have had good luck mounting SBFs is those are designed for stock steering.

    What you have now is a mess from the " bigger hammer method of hot rodding".

    P.S.
    Note the X marks on the oil pan.:rolleyes:
    The guy bought expensive parts and still flicked it up.
    Sadly, you are now paying the price. That stuff needs re done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  4. Those are also stock factory mid 80's to early 90's Fox body headers and different ones will have better collector location. The steering, well I don't know, see F-One above but you have some very serious issues there and are about through the oil pan which needs replaced.
     
    X38 and F-ONE like this.

  5. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    Shoebox central lists the steering link as working with a sbf. Lots of people have done the swap, no one has mentioned these problems as far as I've been able to find. I'm hoping one of those people will chime in with their experience. The trans mount is a hack job, but the rest of the parts are in their off the shelf condition. The headers are aftermarket. Factory headers are dimpled at the flange for easier bolt access. Mine have no dimples and appear to be mandrel bent. I can drive the car down to Sanderson and have them find or make me headers. I'm concerned with the steering and want to get the motor placement proper to where parts that are listed to bolt in, bolt in.

    I'm aware the tie rods are hitting the pan. I'm trying to ascertain if that's from a home brew mount set up, or the Volvo box. If I should look into different mounts, or just torch the arms and bend them for the proper clearance.
     
  6. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,271

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    I'm not really shooting off the hip here. I owned a 50 Coupe....... considered the SBF...... got the same style mounts you have..... In the end I went with a flathead.

    The problem is your steering. That hacked up mess would not work well with any, any engine including the stock 8BA!

    It has to be re done ........ back to the drawing board!

    The simple thing to do is go back to stock shoe box steering..... throw the Volvo and Farman stuff in the Dumpster and mount the engine correctly.
     
    JeffB2 and warhorseracing like this.
  7. Does Shoebox Central list the steering components as working with the stock Ford box or a Volvo box? Maybe everyone else hasn't, mixed and matched parts.;)
     
  8. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    Which is why I made this post, asking if anyone HAD EXPERIENCE with this combination and what was required to make it work. Again, this wasn't my plan, I didn't put it together. I don't have another car in pieces laying around to bolt stock parts back on to, nor do I really want to. I want to make what I have work, and am asking anyone else who has experience for their input.
     
  9. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    Here's the hotrod article showing the Volvo box and the Fatman steering linkage:
    https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0902sr-1949-1951-ford-steering-motor-mounts/
    They don't photograph the Volvo box and Fatman linkage w/ the engine in place, but say in the article it fits, which leads me to believe the mounts were installed slightly forward, the motor probably should be back 1/4-1/2". Just curious if anyone else went down the same path with their car.
     
  10. Post when you plan on driving your car so people can avoid the oil slick that is coming, that pan is mighty thin. You are getting to the unsafe zone. sometime you have to go backward to go forward ,time to start again.
     
  11. Couple things I see as a possibility of helping
    Different header on the drivers side, can the box be mounted closer to the frame?
    Can you get an oil pan with a shorter or smaller sump?
    Can you try loosing the engine on the mounts and the tranny and see if you can shove it forward?
    Then mount the biscuits correctly?

    The steering shaft is the easy part of the equation once you get the tie rods to stop hitting the pan

    Custom pan is an option deeper/shorter sump
     
  12. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    The biggest issue for me is the center link/ trans clearance. The bottom of the bellhousing was cut out to clear it. It probably needs to be back 1/4" or up an unknown amount, because I don't have a good aod to compare to. Up solves the pan problem as well. Again, I can work out a fix, I was curious if anyone had similar problems.

    And Rex, I'm actually going to trailer it to Victoria, and drive every road on the island, as it is, just for you.
     
    parabola likes this.
  13. Cree
    Joined: Jun 13, 2017
    Posts: 137

    Cree
    Member
    from Montana

    Re oil pan, consider pull it, degrease well, cut out affected area, form and add in a little recessed area to clear where it rubs. Have a good welder do it. Of course check that oil pump pickup clears, relocate if needed. Not in same situation as yours, but I reshaped a van pan to clear a Fatman clip crossmember, with no issues.
     
    Unkl Ian likes this.
  14. DIYGUY
    Joined: Sep 8, 2015
    Posts: 883

    DIYGUY
    Member
    from West, TX

    I have a 56 Ford I put a 302/AOD in. Bought a kit to make it a "bolt in". Had to modify a lot to suit me.
    If you think it needs to go up or forward just shim and slot holes to do so. Your eyes can see way more than the pics we are looking at. Your header clearance issue is probably due mainly to having the wrong header. The article suggests a Sanderson header that fit well although I did not see a model number mentioned.
    Hedman 88400 has fit many different fords with 302 's.
     
  15.  
  16. Well , I`ll make Breakfast! Just givin you the gears, I hope you find a resolution to the issue. Can you modify the pan somewhat or will you have a pump clearance issue?
     
  17. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    I could probably modify it, from what I recall looking into them. If it were my install, I would have taken a drift and hammer in the beginning and clearanced it to start... too thin now. I'll probably space it up, get new headers, and start building a 354 hemi or something else cool.
     
  18. zefa46
    Joined: Dec 15, 2012
    Posts: 40

    zefa46
    Member
    from Bolton uk

    I have an 89 302 sbf with aod in my 50 sedan and in the UK , all this kit that fits not what I've seen .
    shoebox centrel steering fits well with flathead and sbf , volvo power box fits with flathead but cannot fit headers with sbf weather it was the forward facing manifold with the flathead I don't know never actually ran it like that , have shorty headers on the sbf and it was fitted after the steering and is a good 2" forward than yours , in fact I had to put a front electric fan on the rad.
    astrostar front springs and jamco disks , when fatman drop spindles fitted top arm hit the caliper so there off again and a shoebox centrel disk will be fitted
    If anyone has ideas for headers I'd like to fit the volvo box even if I have to source a manual one , before I have to splash out for a rebuilt box
    Biggest issue for me is the cost importing to the UK
     
  19. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 10,479

    flatheadpete
    Member
    from Burton, MI

    All I can see in those pics is that damned orange oil filter...
     
    warhorseracing likes this.
  20. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,936

    LM14
    Member Emeritus
    from Iowa

    Same here. I tend to lose respect or even follow the question once I see one. Sad how one crappy product can change everything.
    SPark
     
  21. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    The same guy who did this put the orange filter on. But thanks for your super useful feedback. Hamb strikes again.
     
  22. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    Zefa, if you look at the 2nd pic, the trans bellhousing was clearanced for the steering. Are you saying your engine is 2" further forward than where mine is? That wouldn't be possible without having the steering arm run through the torque converter. My radiator isn't stock, nor is it mounted in the stock location. Do you have a PS volvo steering box?
     
  23. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 9,176

    manyolcars

    Your steering linkage is basically 3 rods, one has a piece welded to it. How long are the three rods, please?
     
  24. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    I can climb under and measure...do you have a way to calculate a way to relocate them?
     
  25. zefa46
    Joined: Dec 15, 2012
    Posts: 40

    zefa46
    Member
    from Bolton uk

    Hi yes the steering site right in front of the bell housing , I have a volvo power box but not used it
     
  26. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 9,484

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    The HEDMAN 88400 is about the tightest fitting block hugging header they have 1.5" primaries here is picture of them in a 1953 Ford Sedan stock suspension. 1firewall.JPG
     
  27. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 9,484

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    From another angle,this is a 302/AOD combo. Usually in a Shoebox swap with an AOD the transmission hump will be fabbed up for clearance. "Back in the Day" most Shoebox engine swaps used a dropped tie rod Hurst and Trans-Dapt used to sell them but they haven't been produced in decades. 1firewall.JPG
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  28. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 9,484

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    It would be interesting if you would contact Fatman's Tech folks and provide them with these pictures and see their response to your issues. It might be easier to post your issues and pictures here: https://www.facebook.com/FatmanFabrications/ I posted a link to this thread so they could check it out,hope they will respond.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  29. Grosen84
    Joined: Sep 7, 2017
    Posts: 15

    Grosen84

    Thanks for the shots and the feedback Jeff. They did say the center link is dual tapered, so I can reverse them to deal with the pan. Still going to yank everything, since the pan needs addressing now and the AOD is leaking like a sieve. Going to go thru the 302, slap a Borla 8 stack weber clone on the top, and replace the AOD with a 4r70w. Then mount it so you don't have to cut the trans to make the steering clear...:rolleyes:
     
    JeffB2 and warhorseracing like this.
  30. Sounds like you finally formulated a plan. It is a shame that you inherited the mess that you did. Let us know how everything works out.
     
    JeffB2 likes this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.