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Technical HELP. Rusty valvetrain

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jesdude, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. jesdude
    Joined: Apr 26, 2012
    Posts: 151

    jesdude
    Member

    I have my inline 6 cylinder engine that is intended for the 53 chevy and I am able to work on it today but I have a surface rust issue on the rocker studs and valve springs I want to take care of. I can't find a rust removal technique that would allow me to leave this assembled and remove the rust. Everything i see online assumes that you are dealing with a disassembled engine that you can soak in tubs of rust removers. I was thinking of steel wool and soaking the cylinder head with something for a while and then come back and scrub and wipe the rust away. Is this an okay idea? I've seen recommendations on google for vinegar, evapo rust, lemon juice, and similar methods. I was wondering about naval jelly. The rust does not look too bad and I really would like to not remove the head and disassemble it. I don't think I have the tools to hold the valve up and remove the springs but I could figure something out if I absolutely have to. I had the engine and head work done at a local machine shop and I bolted the head on last year. IMAG3677.jpg IMAG3678.jpg IMAG3679.jpg
     
  2. You can take the spark plugs out and stuff a rope in the cylinders (through the spark plug holes). This will hold the valves up while you remove and clean the springs, retainers etc.. Not very hi-tech but it works with no special tools required. when you're done, just pull the rope back out (because you left an end hanging out the spark plug hole...but you knew that ;o).
     
  3. jesdude
    Joined: Apr 26, 2012
    Posts: 151

    jesdude
    Member

    That's true, I like that idea because then I could remove and easily soak the springs in a tub and have better access to all the sides of the studs when scrubbing them. I know the springs are somewhere around 200 lbs rated or whatever they call it. Do I just need to go rent one of those two claw spring tools to get the retainers out? There is an O'reilly auto parts a mile away and I am pretty sure they have those.
     
  4. You can make a simple lever that uses the rocker studs as the fulcrum point lifting the lever (with the ends on the valve springs) will compress the spring enough to remove the retainers. You could get fancy and weld a large washer on the end of your pry tool so that it rests on top of the valve spring (with the hole large enough for the valve and retainer to poke through...but I've also done it with a fairly rudimentary pry bar in a pinch). Make sure the valves are closed when you start. The seat pressure is least at this point.

    Or you can also get into a tool like this:

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=valv...QsAQINQ&biw=1600&bih=794#imgrc=ekWneEgG8pdmrM:
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018

  5. I've used a large deep socket and hammer to remove the springs and keepers. You set the socket on top of the valve spring and give a few sharp taps with the hammer. Putting them back together is not as easy.
     
  6. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    You could probably just hit it with a little Scotch Brite as is and oil it. It's really not bad enough to get excited about.
     
  7. jesdude
    Joined: Apr 26, 2012
    Posts: 151

    jesdude
    Member

    I picked up the tool from oreilly. They had to order it from the warehouse so it took a couple hours. The engine has all the spark plugs out and I don't have pushrods yet so all the valves have been closed this whole time for a couple years. I just looked into the cylinders and sprayed some seafoam deep creep in there for good measure and rotated the crank. Everything seems good in there. Since the stand rotates, I'm going to rotate the engine upside down (still no oil in it) and that way the valves stay closed and I can take all the springs off at once and soak them all immediately in the evaporust I picked up.
    I was thinking that would be fine as a last resort but this is my first engine build ever and I'm trying to do as nice of a job as I can. The rust problem started because of the garage that I currently store everything in needs to be renovated and unfortunately it seems to create a perfect environment for rust to form on just about anything in there. Once I get this cleaned up then I will do my measurements for the pushrods and get those ordered and hopefully I can install those in the next few weeks, fill the engine with oil, prime it, and install the valve cover and gaskets and wrap the engine up to protect it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,264

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If it bothers you that much, get a wash tub, and some cheap white vinegar. Soak the whole thing, for 48-hours, as-is.
     
  9. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    Do not use steel wool on the assembled parts. That stuff will make microscopic steel flakes and those will be right there in the oil valley. How do you think you could get that out? No guarantees.

    If you must remove the rust from the head you should probably pull it, do whatever method you choose (soak,wire brush, blast), then thoroughly clean it before reassembly.
     
    RMONTY likes this.
  10. jesdude
    Joined: Apr 26, 2012
    Posts: 151

    jesdude
    Member

    Have the springs off and soaking now. I found out that one of the springs was not seated flat so I'll make sure to pay attention when reassembling. I will check them in a few hours. IMAG3688.jpg IMAG3690.jpg IMAG3692.jpg IMAG3693.jpg IMAG3695.jpg
     
    RMONTY likes this.
  11. Good job...it'll give you piece of mind. Give them a good lubrication when reassembling to avoid future re-occurence.
     
  12. jesdude
    Joined: Apr 26, 2012
    Posts: 151

    jesdude
    Member

    Thanks. Everything went pretty well. I was sweating bullets! The springs, retainers, and locks came out great and I had never used Evaporust before. I also had liberally applied it to the rocker studs and then wrapped them in plastic food wrap to help them stay wet so the Evaporust would not dry out and that worked pretty well. It only took a couple hours for it to do the magic and then I scrubbed them with a small wire brush and wrapped the valves with paper towels to protect them until I wiped everything down clean before reassembly. I wore some nitrile gloves and soaked everything in the seafoam lubricant as I went through them. I kept the springs in order so they went back on the valve they came from. One of them had an extra shim so I paid attention to that and fixed that one crooked spring. IMAG3697.jpeg IMAG3698.jpeg IMAG3699.jpeg IMAG3701.jpeg IMAG3705.jpeg IMAG3706.jpeg

    Sent from my HTC6545LVW using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Bleach and Hnstray like this.
  13. garyf
    Joined: Aug 11, 2006
    Posts: 283

    garyf
    Member

    The hairs from a scotch bright pad will also destroy bearings.
     
  14. Halfdozen
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 632

    Halfdozen
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any more info you'd care to share? Looks like a 292 with a lump port head, screw in studs aren't stock. It's gonna be a healthy motor.
     
  15. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 1,412

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Get a magnetic drain plug, if you don't already have one. Can't hurt.
     
  16. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Valve spring manufacturers are pretty particular about their products, there's even a new spring break-in routine they recommend. Also warnings about dropping them and especially avoiding excessive handling, nicks and tool marks from things like screwdrivers. They usually have a nitride coating.

    Rust, they claim, can lead to catastrophic failure! Not trying to rain on the parade here but if the rust was real bad it might be best to replace them. It sets up "stress risers". Stock springs anyways, are only a couple bucks. A dropped valve not so much.
     
  17. jesdude
    Joined: Apr 26, 2012
    Posts: 151

    jesdude
    Member

    Yes it is a 292. I had the lump port mods done and I did a little bit of smoothing in the ports before I handed it to the machine shop with everything I had ordered from Tom at 12bolt.com. They are 7/16 screw in studs (was 3/8 press fit), valves are 1.84 intake and 1.60 exhaust (was 1.72 and 1.50), 1.75 ratio rockers arms with roller tips (was 1.6), I don't remember the exact cam details but I know it has slightly more lift and duration like an RV cam type and would be good for boost if I ever wanted to add some. I didn't think I should mention too many details since it's technically an off topic engine from the 80s. My car didn't have the original motor when I found it. I knew I wanted to keep a nice 6 cylinder in it though instead of squeezing a v8 in there. My guesstimate for the power is over 200 hp and 300 ft lbs. I'm hoping to break it in on an engine stand in the next few months.
    You are right about that. Good idea! I may stick some extra earth magnets on the bottom of the pan during break in and for a few thousand miles once I get it on the road.
    Pretty much what I was thinking about. I really don't think it was that bad at all and I hope I caught it in time and didn't end up with microscopic failure points in the surfaces. I may swap out the springs later but I don't know until I get closer to starting this thing. I'll see how much money I have burning a hole in my pocket then but I believe the whole set was $60.
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  18. MrCreosote
    Joined: Jul 23, 2009
    Posts: 368

    MrCreosote
    Member
    from USA

    A 1953 inline 6 design was based on hand numbers and hence huge safety margins. The older the design, the less likely rust pits will cause a crack to form. New OE designs and race designs more so, have made safety margins tighter because stress analysis is now possible. With focus on fuel economy, weight is minimized everywhere and probably in valve springs too. A rusty valve spring in a new car would be much more of a concern than in a 1953 model. And keep in mind that 6-cyl cam probably has the lowest lift/duration of 1953 models and the lowest loads on springs too.
     
  19. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    True enough, but 63 year old valve springs can likely be super weak by now, rusty or not. I suppose they could be tested to be sure, but they aren't expensive. Stock valve spring pressures aren't very high maybe only 75 pounds or so, but for best smooth power they need every bit of that 75 pounds. Shimmed up usually.
     
    jimmy six likes this.

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