Has anyone here with a shoebox made there own inner and outer rockers? I have a 51 fordor that needs a significant amount of metal put down on the floors I know EMS looks like they sell everything but I would like to try and make what I can to save a few bucks. I am trying to decide if I should attempt to make everything or even buy the outer rockers and floor braces from EMS and then buy a bead roller and try to make the rest myself. Show me what you have done !!
I did this many years back. I have also used the EMS stuff. I'm also pretty fair with sheet metal and a welder. Were I to take on another job like you are describing I would for sure build my own floor pans. The replacement stuff is not a replacement Floor piece, they are a Patch panel. You can interpret that how ever you want. If you have a sheer and a brake your way ahead of anything mail order. The inner rocker is a no brainer. The 49-51 body mounts for under the Floor to Frame from EMS are close enough to factory to get you in trouble. If you can make a pattern piece do that then build your own out of sheet stock from the pattern. The outter Rockers are a coin toss. They have gotten better but the last ones I had my hands on did not have the correct front to back contour that then transfered to not the same fit to the Door bottom. To back this up, just 3 weeks ago I did 53 F-100 door inner and outer bottoms. The inner panels from them were large enough to drop over the Factory panel and the flange to outer skin was not even close both Vertical and front to back for the Skin flange. This is routine for replacement parts. If you want things correct and Shit to Fit build your own. The Wizzard
Good advice, Wiz... I bought a set of one of those aftermarket floor replacements that didn't come anywhere near fitting so I just chopped it up and made things fit. As it turns out in my poor boy project I used about a thousand pop rivets ( an electric pop rivet drill attachment is required) and a case of that 3M black sealer I don't remember the number on it but it turned out just fine pretty ugly to begin with but who the heck will ever see it? Here is the gallery on my website . You have to scroll down a ways to see the floor in the reconfiguration around the Jaguar rear end and tubbing the wheel wells. https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/Rebuilding-body/
Wow looks like you had a ton of work into the floors seeing posts like this definitely makes it not as scary. I worked on building a sheet metal brake today but 1/2 way threw I was wondering if I will want something bigger so I may end up buying something larger. I decided I should get a bead roller also I am just wondering about making my trans tunnel and rolling shape of the outer rocker.
My '51 club coupe had a bit of the floor rotted out so I made my own after purchasing some floor sheet metal from Macs and seeing what trash it was. It had no resemblance to the original pattern. more pics of the interior work are here: https://public.fotki.com/RussB/my_cars/51-392/interior-modificati/
Thanks for the pics Russ. I dont have much of the orginal floors left so trying to match beads will be very difficult for me. What did you do for the floor brace russ? Id love to see if there was any homemade floor braces to give me ideas on how to make mine.
I did not make an additional brace. I think my 51 did not have one, or mine was not bad. The 51’s shape was quite different from the 49-50 floor piece that EMS showed in the post after my original post. The Macs piece (I discarded) looked similar in shape to the 49-50 piece EMS showed, but looked to be of a more primitive shaping effort, as I recall. The floor of the 51 was very solid after I replaced the rotted metal. I attached the patch with a combination of butt welding and steel pop rivets where I had overlap near the hump. The deep grooves of the floor gave it a lot of strength. Not having to make a match gives you the freedom to make your own design and simply make the side pieces match the fit of your new center hump piece. Easy for me to say as I only had to replace a small bit of the whole floor. Best wishes, just go a piece at a time.
O,K, E.M.S. I just watched part of the first video you just put up here. I'd like to know why what I have had my hands on from your plant is so much different from Factory. I have bought your panels for Shoe box, 57 Ford Car and F-1 along with many customers bringing me your parts to install. I think it depends on what level of exact repair you can do depends on how well things work for each of us. I'm not a Wire feed welder on Body panels and I don't do lap over panel joints. You (I) can't metal finish a Lap Joint. Your sales man talks a good line and the pieces may fit together with each other but fitting as Factory panels they do Not. Well at least I can't seem to do it. The Lower front Quarter shown that has the B post as part, good luck joining it to a Factory edge through those steps. Your first fold from body panel to door relief channel is a rolled edge not a crisp fold. The steps are not the same as a Ford body panel. Just stop the video and look. You can see it is not a clean sharp edge. The lower radi. for bottom door Corner isn't even close to fitting a Stock door corner. The under Floor brace has several steps in it as well as comes off the inner rocker at an angle to center and rises up with a body mount bolt passing through it. The ones I have had my hands on only looked like stock ones till I went to install. I noticed the same rolled edge on the fender panel and that when the Sales man set the inner in the outer patch he didn't leave it there long. Edge to edge contour, how is that? If anything like the 57 Ford ones I bought, well not for me. Again on the 57 Ford fender patch it would lay on top and over both edges on a stock fender. In other words, over size and did not have the reverse contour to match up to the Factory rocker shape and a rolled edge not crisp. I understand what you make is very involved and requires a massive investment. How is it that what Henry built 65 years ago with antique machinery and equipment can't be duplicated exactly with today's technology and equipment? Just kind of close don't get it for me and I don't carve a shape after doing a patch with Body Man in a Can. Clearly there are many that are just fine with what you make or you would have stepped up your game or be gone. Home builder and weekend hobby guys that just want to close up the holes should be glad your here. I seem to want better than that and just don't understand why taking the time and making the investment don't yield an as Factory part. I would be much happier pointing out how well made patch panels are instead of telling people Close is all your going to get. The Wizzard
I replaced the floor pans in my ‘50 from the toeboards to the back seat, including the trans & driveshaft tunnel, floor braces and inner rockers. All EMS parts. Welded, seam-sealed and covered with a rubber mat. For me it worked great, although it’s a job I don’t want to do again. The car is solid and drives straight down the road. I’m happy.
There’s no reason to turn this guy’s thread into an EMS debate. I used EMS for the outer rockers and body patches, made my own floors and inner rockers. Lots of photos in my build thread...
Sounds great! I will check out your build thread when I can get a chance ! I have thought about that also using some parts and making the rest !
I made a lot of mine on the Ranch Wagon but that was before EMS started making all the patch panels for the 52 -54 Fords,If I were doing them today I would purchase the parts from EMS and save a lot of time. HRP
Does EMS make stuff for the 55-56`s as well? I need 4dr rocker panels and the little diamond filler panel that fits between the doors that connects the pillar to the rocker panel. So far all I can find is just the generic 2 dr stuff the front fender patch panels and the rear quarters.
I too made my patches as they were small and entire rocker replacement wasn't required. I could have replaced the entire rocker but chose to weld in three small patches and retain the majority of original steel as the inner rocker was in good shape. Small patches in the floor also after I discovered them. I priced repair patches but made the decision that I didn't need as much repair material as was offered. This is one of the larger sized holes with another just in front prior to cutting out the body putty smeared and mashed into the rusted area. This is a third patch further back tacked in prior to final welding and metal work, also a small area. So I guess it depends as to how much area you need to replace, at least it did to me.
Everyone Ive personally known that used panels didn't use the whole panel they used it to cut the section out they needed then butt welded the smaller panel where they needed it. That's what I planned to do for myself, the rear rockers I need I was just going to cut out the area I need then butt weld it. screw replacing the whole panel.
All of my patch material comes from later model Ford; hoods, doors, and trunks. The patches above are from a 1982 Mustang hood. Same gauge and you get to start with a fairly flat piece and beat and bend it into shape to fit the rocker, fender lip, floor, whatever.
As you can see in the pictures I think everything will require full if not almost full replacement the floors were hacked. Rockers with tin and pop rivet on everything over top of rust and then either tar or bondo covering that it’s very overwhelming but I guess I need to start someplace the trans tunnel is very solid but the wings on the back part were hacked.
How are the rest of the floors, trunk area? If that bad and intrusive some bracing prior to disassembly is in order. Not doing it now may mitigate any alignment of other body panels later.
Yep I was about to say the same thing. You need to brace inside, front-to-back and side-to-side or things start to flex as soon as you start cutting. Bracing also makes it very entertaining to try to crawl around inside the car to work, it's like working in a dirty jungle gym I saved a few pieces of my floors, but it was more of a pain than anything. Next time (next time?!) I'll probably just replace the entire floor. I think I'm the last man standing who still promotes the social forums, but if you haven't already you should join the shoebox hamber group. There's a ton of good info and a lot of shoebox-specific build threads compiled in one place... https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/social-forums/shoe-box-hambers.112/
I will stand with you Big A on the social forums. He is right about a ton of information on these cars. I am there too and don't regret it, doesn't cost anything same as here but you can find yourself spending time there. Albeit time well spent with the knowledge you gain on the first attempt after WWII to modernize the car. Ford was first. forward looking and modern design to hit the post WWII market. Everyone's darling chebie didn't come close until 1955 and by that time Ford already had their OHV V8 into production for two years.
Trunk seems to be in ok shape I still have to remove undercoating to be 100% positive. As far as bracing I know I need something I thought about some 1x1 square to hold it all together I priced some 2x2x1/8 and it was 3.75 foot so i thought about something smaller to hold it together. Otherwise I have some scrap 2x2x1/4 I can use if I need to. I was going to wait to brace until I had made up my mind on building or buying floors. And make sure it’s braced before the 1st cut in the rockers is done
When I did my shoebox floors I braced it using some old steel sign posts that we had in the shed, they were free but heavy and overkill. When I did my '41 Ford I just used 1" EMT conduit. Easy to work with and inexpensive.
I'll throw this into the conversation about bracing. It's a must do for sure when doing large sections and any that include the Floor to Frame braces however no one has mentioned Door Gaps. Myself I start there. When the sub braces start going away and the Rockers start going away the body shell starts to settle and Door Gaps go nuts. I generally start by re shimming the body to frame to get things back where they started. Then get good gaps next weld in the Bracing. Prior do doing any Door fit, put in new hinge Pins. The Wizzard
I kind of touched on it Pist-n-broke with the body panel alignment not in the detail you did. I like your approach of getting things back to f alignment prior to any disassembly. Have you ever looked in the factory repair manual at the door bending jig for straightening the doors if they become sprung?
I have old Body Shop (they weren't Old when I got them) manuals that shows that process. I've learned if a Body is truly dialed in twisting the Doors isn't necessary. That can all be avoided if you good fit to start with. The issue with twisting a door to get fit is then getting Door Glass to ride smooth in both channels, That is unless you can find bent glass. The Wizzard
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