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Technical Only starts when letting off ignition

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jedy, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

    I bought my first vehicle when I was 19 after working the summer as a carpenter's apprentice. My Dad was excited to see me go for a '56 Chevy Stepside. I distinctly remember the drive home, Bay Area rush hour traffic, frozen king pin, master cylinder couldn't build pressure, lots of brake pumping, super hard to steer. It's a good thing I was 19...

    I didn't know anything, so we had a shop get it working right. This truck was my daily driver in college and beyond. When I moved to the city for work, I considered selling it, but my mom told me Dad would be happy to hold on to it for me. I let him have it, and he has been faithfully keeping the truck running for the past 20 years, thanks Dad.

    My wife and I finally settled down, bought a small farm and low and behold a garage of my very own. Last August, my Dad insisted I pick up the truck from him – and I am glad I did, as it was only a few weeks later that their home was destroyed in the California wildfires. They are in the process of rebuilding their home and have taken the loss pretty well.

    My jalopy is a '56 Chevy Stepside with a '73 Olds Engine. I'm a newbie but am trainable and willing to learn.


    The issue:

    When I turn the key to the start position, the starter will crank and crank and crank but the engine won't catch. When I release the key to the run position, and the starter is just dying off, suddenly the engine will catch and she'll fire up. Unfortunately the issue isn't consistent, it only catches sometimes, if I'm lucky. I'm not sure if it helps, but it will start normally once it has been running a bit.

    I've been using a battery tender on it, however, it might be the battery as I let the truck sit for a few months before I bought the tender. I did not have this problem when it was my daily driver.
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  2. Do you have a ballast resister?
     
    dana barlow and jedy like this.
  3. Im betting the ballast bypass wire that feeds the coil a full 12 volts off the starter solenoid, when cranking, is missing.
     
  4. Could be switch bad or out of adjustment if it's late model column

    Sent from my VS996 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    jedy, Chiss and milwscruffy like this.

  5. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

  6. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

    There is a splice on one of the lines coming out of the resistor it goes here IMG_8222.JPG
     
  7. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

    Here's my hokey ass wiring diagram IMG_8239a.jpg
     
  8. Look down at your starter solenoid. You should have the (+) battery cable going to one post (the big post, may or may not have other wires also attached to the post). You will have another wire that comes off the start pole on your ignition (or push button depending on how wired) to the solenoid. Lastly, if you don't have an hei distributor and have a coil, you should have another wire going straight to the (+) on your coil. Lots of guys seem to leave this off. What it does is provide the coil with a full 12v during cranking. Without it you may get voltage drop which does what you are describing.
     
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  9. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

    I'll get some shots of the steering column/key soon
     
  10. jedy likes this.
  11. That's for your electric choke on your carburetor.
     
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  12. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

  13. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

  14. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

    Thanks for the reply! I put a shot of the distributor above. The missing wire should connect the (+) on the coil to... (i've got a lot to learn thanks o_O)
     
  15. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

    The push button used to work, when I had it. My Dad didn't like it, so he had it rewired to start without the button.
     
  16. There should be a terminal down on your solenoid that is small and has no wire hooked to it. That goes directly to the (+) on the coil. I'm on my phone so cant post pics. I will see if I can grab one off google for you.
     
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  17. download.png
     

    Attached Files:

  18. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

    Ah thank you – So if I am reading this right, the bypass would be running a wire from the "I" terminal on the solenoid to the (+) terminal on the coil?
     
  19. Different button that I was referring to, but no difference so forget that part. ;)

    What you have described and shown in your pics, I truly believe it's starting voltage drop. Put that wire in as my pic shows and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the issue goes away. There is a reason gm put that wire in :cool:
     
    jedy likes this.
  20. Yes sir.
     
    jedy likes this.
  21. The very first post sounds to me like it is describing the heavy starter current drain making the current drop just below the best working voltage that the ignition system prefers.
    When the starter is turned off, the voltage available to the ignition goes back up to a good level to work the ignition properly.
    I had that happen back in the early 1990s when I put a big 472 in a hotrod Stude, and a battery in the trunk.
    I was using the normal "white wire coil" in my HEI, and had that exact problem.
    When I jumpered another battery to it as a helper to keep the heavy cranking voltage from dropping too much, it started sort-of well.
    When I switched to using the higher step-up "yellow wire coil" the problem went away.
    The problem I had was caused by the heavy drain of hard cranking sucking the voltage down just enough to keep the ign system from firing a hot enough spark until the starter stopped sapping the power.
    This sounds just like the same thing happening here.
    Check that all cables are large enough, connected well with no voltage drop across any questionable connections, and a very stout battery that doesn't drop power too easily.
    Sometimes things can look and feel very good, but still fall below useful levels when you strain it.
    To me, the original post sounds like the classic description of cranking voltage falling just below the ignition operating voltage.


    WHY BE ORDINARY ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
    jedy likes this.
  22. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member


    Probably what caused the issue. May have been mentioned above, but I think you're trying to start through the resistor, and run on direct 12v. Most likely swapped at the solenoid.
     
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  23. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have run into some switches that did not send power to the coil when you were cranking with the key. Those were designed to rely on the resistor bypass wire being in place.

    One thought, some solenoids for later engines with hei don't have the I post for the resistor bypass wire. On that you could run a wire from a hot all the time source to a push button switch and a wire from the push button to the + post on the coil and use the push button to bypass the resistor with when you start the engine.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
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  24. seabeecmc
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,185

    seabeecmc
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Your ignition switch may be bad. When key is turned perhaps it over travels. Try not turning to quite to full extent but still engaging starter to see if it starts. Ron
     
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  25. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 956

    sevenhills1952

    Coil --- goes to distributor points.
    Coil + goes to two places, ballast resistor and starter solenoid.
    Other side of ballast resistor goes to ignition switch.

    Be sure coil is external ballast resistor type.
    Be sure coil + gets 12V only when key is on.
    The second wire going to starter solenoid is so that coil gets full available voltage when cranking. The heavy starter current draw means voltage while cranking may only be 10 volts. The ballast is bypassed while cranking. When it starts the coil now gets power through ballast resistor.

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
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  26. jedy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2018
    Posts: 20

    jedy

    That may have been the way it was wired prior to my Dad's modification. I will poke around and see if any of those wires were left under the dash.
     
  27. No need. The wire I showed you takes 5 minutes to install and does the same thing.

    He's just saying IF the solenoid doesnt have the terminal I mentioned. Odds are it does.
     
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  28. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    I agree with the theory that there is too much voltage drop. Check all the grounds and cables, make sure the engine is well grounded to the chassis.
     
    jedy likes this.
  29. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,008

    rfraze
    Member

    This change is probably when the problem began.
    Test voltage at coil positive. With key off. With key on. While cranking. I bet there is no voltage during cranking.
    That usually means that coil (or incoming side of ballast resistor) is connected to ACC side of switch (which goes off during Start (cranking)). Find a pole on the key that stays HOT while cranking to connect to coil POS.
    Sometimes systems are designed (like Mustangs) that have a resistor wire between key switch and coil (eliminating need for ballast resistor) but creating a need for the extra wire from solenoid to coil POS (which is only HOT while solenoid is engaged and energizing starter).
    Run a separate hot wire from IGN side of switch to choke. (Or input side of ballast, if that pole shows a full 12v)
     
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  30. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Here is a way to test it. Hook up a remote starter switch to the solenoid. (Connected to the large battery terminal on the solenoid and the little terminal labeled s). Turn the ignition key to the Run position. Crank the motor with the remote starter switch. If it doesn't start until you let off cranking, the problem is voltage drop. If it starts right up while cranking, the issue is the ignition switch or the wiring.
     
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