did a little reading yesterday about it on ames... been sort of busy ill look into it more tonight... thanks for the other information though
I don't think anyone has elaborated yet on the motor mount details - a 1959 Pontiac engine has one mount under the bottom lip of the timing chain cover in the front, and one side mount on each side at the back of the block. On the other hand that 455 engine uses a more conventional mounting method, with one mount located midway on each side of the block. So, to install the later engine you'll have to fab up new mounting points on the frame.
Sorry did some investigating and edited my last post before I seen your reply it has center mounts looked at the car an the local Pontiac expert I know said 59 was the first year for them Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The front motor mount on the bottom of the timing cover on both 59/60 engines is just carryover from before and not used. I just inquired about this over on the Ames site and the answer there is that the 455s have the same motor mount pattern as the earlier 389s. If your existing mounts are in good shape you could bolt the 455 right in. If you get new mounts that fit your existing 389, same deal...motor bolts right in. Still need to deal with trans mount however for the turbo 400.
If you haven't taken it apart yet , I'd measure where the center of the output shaft is, in relation to the floorboard.Then you can put the T400 close to the same position. Is it a long or short 400? What did it come out of? (picture?) I'd guess with a long one, you'd have to shorten the front shaft and adapt a 400 yoke. Cheaper than making a longer one, but who knows where a short one might fall. I've put 400's in 64's , but never in X frame cars.
my dad is going to handle that side of the conversion hes got a metal shop and has built many drive shafts for guys in his time... one question i do have for you guys is radiators... going to replace thoughts on what i should get?
As someone who's owned and torn apart both 1959 and 1960 Pontiacs - The 455 will bolt in at the front using the 1959 block mounts so long as the block has the forward position mount holes. Trans Am engines use a second set of mounts further back and higher on the sides, some are drilled and tapped for both, some are not. The 455 won't work with the stock trans due to a whole host of changes in bellhousing and bolt pattern, so you need the TH400. The stock shifter will run it fine, you just have to remember the new pattern and probably have to mess around adapting parts to get them connected. The trans mount isn't a huge deal, you'll probably have to make one. But it had probably better be a short tail trans to fit inside the X-frame. The driveshaft uses a carrier bearing and you'll probably have to alter the front portion to make it go. You may even be able to use the stock radiator if you use the water neck off the 389. I don't know why it wouldn't work if it's clean, the pressure is the same. Going to an alternator and HEI involves some wiring changes, but no big deal. Or you can drop in the '59 distributor if you want, it's a bolt on. Nothing impossible, but there's some engineering involved. Use the stock '59 manifolds if your exhaust is decent. Pontiac D-port is Pontiac D-port, they'll bolt right up. Steering clearance is a pain in the ass on these, as is getting the pipe around the starter, but this will get you by with a minimum of hassle. As for the 389, Pontiac engine kits for a 400 are the cheapest of the bunch. If the block will take a .055 bore you can just use stock 400 pistons in it and the lower end stuff is the same. It will not be as much fun to drive with the early Hydro out of it. It will get worse fuel mileage, if you care. About the only bright spot is the rear end is pretty well bulletproof and it will still go fast even with what's probably a 3.08 gear in it. If I were doing one I'd look at using a 200R4 or 700R4 in there.
One more thing, order new mounts for it, the rubber portion. They break, the engine lifts, and with the stock linkage it jams the accelerator wide open. You can key it off and start it again but it's a scary experience.
yea i was thinking so on the mounts they are pretty reasonable ... was looking at getting a new radiator the on i have needs to be replaced any suggestions
Not sure why you would have to modify the driveshaft center bearing assembly if you make the swap. I'm pretty sure a long tail shaft T-400 will fit in the X frame no problem. You will just have to deal with the front end of the shaft that goes into the tranny, not the part that connects to the bearing. If you take the shaft out, I would seriously consider replacing the bearing and checking the vulcanized rubber mounting for it. The bearing is a sealed unit and you can still get it at NAPA last I checked, but it's a little pricey at around $60.00 (+/-). You can also get the vulcanizing redone (by Steele Rubber but that's quite pricey at around $150.00)! There will probably be shims under the bearing housing assy when you remove the shaft. Keep track of them and put them back in when you reinstall the driveshaft. If you don't have the basic service manual, I would seriously suggest getting one. It has a lot of good info in it regarding stuff like this (at least the one for 1960 does). BTW......the center bearing is not the same as a Chevy. Maybe one would work but they really look chincy (?) in comparison...IMO. As a final comment, if your radiator is original it should say Harrison on the top tank next to the cap. I would consider having it R&R'd or re-cored. Just a thought.
Not sure where you got the idea the carrier needs anything done to it. The shaft is two sections; the forward section may not reach the trans, and you may have to alter or change the yoke to get it to match up anyways.
If I could put a 455/th400 Pontiac in a 70 GMC pickup in 2 weeks only working on it at night and weekends. I don't know why a Pontiac in a Pontiac should be so hard . Yank that 389 out and drop the other one in there and see what changes need to be made.
Update on the project... got the 455 brought home last Friday (yes i know its has been painted orange... the whole story behind it checks out) Monday unfortunately the engine got backed into by the forklift by one of my dads employees and broke the exhaust manifold... ooops!!!! got the car loaded up today and brought out to the mechanic who is helping me with the swap... will keep you all updated with pictures and posts as we go... happy hump day!!!
yea i seen that just forgot to mention it... on the bright side after the car has been sitting for almost 2 years and the keys had been misplaced. the buddy of mine who is helping with the swap had a pile of old keys lying around tried some and sure enough one worked!!! hopefully this luck will keep going...
well guys lets start of the week with an update... the engines out of the car and getting a pressure washer to remove some dirt and grease before throwing in the 455. also when i was home this weekend i took a wire brush on a drill and went after the engine and trans a bit. the only thing the new engine didn't come with was an air cleaner so i picked up one of those too... And of course after finding keys that work for the car the original showed up.... now just to get through the work week so i can go back home next weekend and work on it some more.
Sorry Poncho60 but maybe I can redeem myself a little here... I’m not very good at checking in here... I have been at a stalemate on this project for a bit... things are on the upswing again and after a little break I’m hoping to finish this in time for some fall cruising... my mechanic friend also has been busy and he’s part time retired so we are taking our time... But he does top notch work and his knowledge is priceless after the exhaust manifold got busted and starting to think about it we decided to tear the heads off of the motor to see what we were dealing with… the valves were not seating so we decided to send them to our engine builder and due to it being race season he has no shortage of work. He discovered a crack in one of the heads. So I got a set from a friend who restores gtos… once again they were cracked finally got a good set from my engine builder (quality engines out of Fargo ND… highly recommended) The oil pan and a small crack and we tore that off and fixed that… like I said my dad has a metal shop and an awesome set of tools… looked at the rest of the engine without getting to crazy with tearing stuff apart and everything looks good… no scoring on the walls or any other major red flags… Was going to start reassembling the motor yesterday but we need a new seal for the timing cover and since the timing cover and oil pan used the same gasket in one spot we were out of work till we can get a new one so we can reinstall the oil pan and flip the motor over. Also ordered a new holly carb, exhaust manifolds, valve covers, starter, and some other stuff I know I’m forgetting. Once again sorry I haven’t posted sooner!!!
ive been told it was royal amethyst poly but i could be wrong... i believe dawnfire mist was a year or two later but damn close... ill look at the paint code when i get a chance
Still trying to make up for not posting in a while so here you go guys another post tonight... went to go put the timing cover on yesterday and realized we didn’t have the water pump I swear I got so that came in today bolted everything up and flipped the motor right side up... hoping for heads and some fresh paint tomorrow.... even al my old mechanic friend was happy with the progress!!! Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Not trying to throw a wrench in your progress, but since you replaced your water pump, you might be interested in checking out the heating / cooling section on the Ames site. Lots of info about clearancing the divider plate to the impeller and stamped vs cast impellers. This all has to do with improving the cooling performance of your motor.
I gave the info you gave me (poncho60) to my dad and he said him and our mechanic friend al were going to look into it but he did say that putting the water pump together about as good as it possibly could’ve so I don’t know if we’ll be tearing back apart after reading into it... But as promised heads and paint went on the motor today!!! Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Update time... missing a few parts and pieces yet so couldn’t finish bolting up the motor... also one of the cans of paint I got definitely didn’t match so we got a new cab finished painting and set some of the shiny parts on to get some more motivation to finish... Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
update time... we had a question about the hole in the middle of the heads that were not covered by the gaskets...werent sure if we had the wrong gasket so we waited to talk to my gto friend before bolting it on... once we found out they were heat risers we bolted that on also needed to make a brass bushing to for the transmission to get the yoke to fit properly see attached... not sure yet if we will need to shorten the drive shaft yet. also it appears we might have to do some work on the cross member to get that to work should be dropping it all in here soon and will know alot more... have a wedding this weekend and my dad is heading to canada for work so progress will be at a stand still.....
The Jalopy Journal
