I'm an engineer in the bus industry. We typically pay huge money to have stamped sheet metal parts prototyped. I've viewed some of the metal shaping around here with amazement at what can be done. It got me thinking: my company should consider equipping and training our in-house prototype shop to make our own parts. How would you equip the shop? Let's assume an initial budget of $50,000. An English Wheel, electric bead roller/flanger, shrinker/stretcher, stuff to make hammer forms is what I'm thinking for starters. Parts can be 3-4' wide, 8' long and up to 1' deep, 16 gauge to 20 gauge steel. For example, I'd want to make a roof cap or compound-curved door starting from CAD-generated cross sections that could be used to make form patterns. Secondly, where would you send your shop guys for training? I'm thinking hands-on class one week at a time. Our typical prototype shop guy can lay out metal, run a shear and brake press, MIG, TIG, etc. so they aren't starting from scratch.
Have you thought of the Ron Covall traveling classes? He is a Master Tin Smith and has been doing 2 day classes all over the place for years. He might be up to a 5 day gig. Worth a call for sure. I would think anyone worth teaching should already have his basics down and know he wants to get better to end up being a well Skilled employee. In my early years I tried to take Guys with no skills and teach them how to do the Job I needed done only for them to decide it wasn't what they wanted to do. They just wanted a Pay Check. That was weeks and sometimes Months lost. Good sheet metal skills are a Labor of Love not just a Job. The Wizzard
Ron Covell could probable put together a course focused on what you need -- he's done lots of prototype stuff over the years in addition to the obvious street rod metal shaping work he's known for. You might consider a power hammer over the e-wheel. Generally it's a lot faster, and you can shrink deeply into the panel -- much further and more aggressively than jaw-type shrinkers. It also leaves the panel in a more relaxed state. There are options like the Baileigh PH28hd and Mittler double arm hammer that would be around $15K for a compete running unit.
probably should add the following to your list if you don't already have this stuff in the shop (and willing to share with the metal shop): planishing hammer, tig and mig welders, air compressor, metal shear, metal break, assorted hand grinders (elec and air powered), belt/disk sander combo, band saw or two, couple of drill presses (Lg and Sm), bench grinders, big vise or two, assorted hammers, dollies, shot bags maybe a plasma cutter and/or torch rig. As for training... hire a guy that already knows, pay him well, and have him train the next couple of guys Chappy
As LAZZE and Ron Covell would be a couple of good instructors, I think hiring someone that has most of the skills necessary to do the job initially would be a better way to go. Then have them set up the shop to suit their interests. There are a number of options for power hammers, but that would blow your budget to nearly 50k, just for the hammer. The Pettingell power hammer being built again and Renato builds a nice hammer as well; which are in the Yoder K90 class . The smaller hammers (smaller die size) might not measure up to what the larger hammers can do. A Pullmax would be a better option than a bead roller, but then again its its up to who's using the tools.
If your doing 4' x 8' panels you need some big machines, power hammer and Pulmax. Lookup Wray Schelin and Fay Butler for classes, they are both in Massachusetts and have lots of videos on You Tube.
Go to AllMetalshaping.com and ask your question. A local master could help you get set up and thast where you'll find one. A good source for equipment is Bailee, they are members here and will give you best prices. Remember those huge costs were for the finished product, once you develop the skill to make your own finished product I'll guarantee those costs will be quite reasonable.
How sensitive are those prototypes when it comes to the exact shape of the panel? Handmade is handmade, it can be made to fit the panels surrounding it, it may have the right shape as far as the eye or hand can tell, but there's probably going to be some diffrences even if the same guy tries to make two identical panels after each other. I'm guessing it's not that critical for you, but sometimes people expect more than is resonable. Out of interest, how much is "huge money" that you pay for those prototypes? Just a ballpark figure, to give the people here that know what skilled metalwork costs an idea if it would make financial sense to go down the handmade route.
Thanks for the tips, guys. The prototypes would serve to validate design before cutting hard tooling, so you'd want them reasonably close. The good thing here is that I can produce accurate buck patterns, forms or gages from CAD files. I'd be tickled pink with 1/8" tolerances on larger parts. For the whole front or rear of a bus, you could easily spend $100K on tools and labor for functional prototypes if the parts required large CNC-machined patterns or kirksite tools.
You're paying "huge money" because you're spending 100k on CNC, kirksite tooling to do a prototype. That prework sounds more like pre production level stuff (tooling). What would a master such as Fay or Wray charge to accomplish that 100k job if you bid it out? Making the investment in your shop tooling and training for your folks is admirable, however, ask your self if these individuals have what it takes to graduate from knowing basic sheet metal skills to mastering sheet metal. The other consideration is even if they are teachable, are they up for it? The 50k tooling investment and pro taught classes are no guarantee that your staff will gain the needed skills. Mastering sheet metal work takes years. From their perspective, "what's in it for them"? Are they going to expect a pay bump once you train them (to do a 100k prototype by hand)? What are your employees thoughts? How loyal are they? Will you eventually lose your talent to a Custom car shop because they're so damn good?
Why not just communicate with the Supplier of the equipment for your shop and have them send a two to three man team at your location to review the metal shaping process. Another point no matter have much "book learning" you can acquire, there is nothing to match hand's on experience.
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